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SCHOOL of THEOLOGY => Catholicism => Topic started by: Quasar on February 13, 2012, 10:27:57 AM

Title: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on February 13, 2012, 10:27:57 AM
Due to the length of these two reports I will provide the links for those who care to check it out.

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2011/06/16/criticism-of-catholic-beliefs/

See also:  LIST OF HERESIES And HUMAN TRADITIONS ADOPTED by the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IN THE COURSE OF 1600 YEARS

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2011/08/26/list-of-adopted-roman-catholic-heresies-and-human-/


Quasar
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: me again on February 24, 2012, 09:41:09 AM
Due to the length of these two reports I will provide the links for those who care to check it out.

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2011/06/16/criticism-of-catholic-beliefs/

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2011/08/26/list-of-adopted-roman-catholic-heresies-and-human-/

Wheeeew what is a looong read.  :o

The word "catholic" means "universal," as in "universal church." There is only one universal church aka there is only one Body of Christ. Those who are in heaven and those who are going to heaven are a part of this universal church. However, the hatred that some people have for Catholicism has caused them to remove the word "catholic" (with a little c) from the creed.

Can't we all just get along? Oh no, that's not possible!

Who is the Whore of Babylon in the bible? The Whore of Babylon is any alleged Christian church (or church member) who claims to be a part of the universal church, but who lives a filthy lifestyle and is unregenerate. Jesus will spew them out of his mouth.  :o
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on February 24, 2012, 04:06:00 PM
Babylon the Great, the Mother of Prostitutes and abominations of the earth, in Rev.17:5-16 is considered by many expositors, including myself, to be the RCC.  Not Christians, because they will not be going through the seven year tribulation as documented in Jn.14:2-4; 1 Thes.4:13-17 and 2 Thes.2:1-8.

The beast [antichrist] and the ten horns [nations] allied to them will destroy them and set up the one world religion under the AC, as recorded in Rev.13:14-15 and 2 Thes.2:4.

It is a very sad situation with the RCC, knowing there will be so many of them who have never known how to become a born again Christian to say nothing of the many heresies they have led millions of people to believe over the past 1,800 + years.


Quasar
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Catalyst on August 03, 2012, 10:32:29 PM
Babylon the Great, the Mother of Prostitutes and abominations of the earth, in Rev.17:5-16 is considered by many expositors, including myself, to be the RCC.  Not Christians, because they will not be going through the seven year tribulation as documented in Jn.14:2-4; 1 Thes.4:13-17 and 2 Thes.2:1-8.

The beast [antichrist] and the ten horns [nations] allied to them will destroy them and set up the one world religion under the AC, as recorded in Rev.13:14-15 and 2 Thes.2:4.

It is a very sad situation with the RCC, knowing there will be so many of them who have never known how to become a born again Christian to say nothing of the many heresies they have led millions of people to believe over the past 1,800 + years.


Quasar

And I'm not RCC but I bet I can show them to be more biblically sound than your views.  Not challenging you personally, we are discussing theology here. 

I used to feel as you do, it was what I was taught.  When I got of my hind end and did the work, they are more biblically correct than the Protestant Churches in MANY aspects.
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on August 05, 2012, 12:32:40 AM
And I'm not RCC but I bet I can show them to be more biblically sound than your views.  Not challenging you personally, we are discussing theology here. 

I used to feel as you do, it was what I was taught.  When I got of my hind end and did the work, they are more biblically correct than the Protestant Churches in MANY aspects.


BE my guest!  I'm waiting!


Quasar
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Catalyst on August 05, 2012, 02:19:58 PM

BE my guest!  I'm waiting!


Quasar

How do you feel about Apostolic Authority, and Tradition for example.  Might as well throw in Sola Scriptura as they are all intertwined together.  Rome's position is MUCH more biblical than us protestants are.   Now, I'm not saying Rome's claims of being "the one" is right, just the reasoning behind the theology of it.
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on August 06, 2012, 04:43:53 PM
How do you feel about Apostolic Authority, and Tradition for example.  Might as well throw in Sola Scriptura as they are all intertwined together.  Rome's position is MUCH more biblical than us protestants are.   Now, I'm not saying Rome's claims of being "the one" is right, just the reasoning behind the theology of it.



You could save yourself time if you began your post by reading what has already been posted.  For starters, review the following:


Due to the length of these two reports I will provide the links for those who care to check it out.

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2011/06/16/criticism-of-catholic-beliefs/

See also:  LIST OF HERESIES And HUMAN TRADITIONS ADOPTED by the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IN THE COURSE OF 1600 YEARS

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2011/08/26/list-of-adopted-roman-catholic-heresies-and-human-/


Quasar
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Catalyst on August 07, 2012, 07:29:00 PM


You could save yourself time if you began your post by reading what has already been posted.  For starters, review the following:


Due to the length of these two reports I will provide the links for those who care to check it out.

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2011/06/16/criticism-of-catholic-beliefs/

See also:  LIST OF HERESIES And HUMAN TRADITIONS ADOPTED by the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IN THE COURSE OF 1600 YEARS

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2011/08/26/list-of-adopted-roman-catholic-heresies-and-human-/


Quasar

You could have saved us both time had you read the Bible and History of the church, what's your point?

BTW, do you intend your posts to be so condescending and presumptively correct, or is it something you are not aware of.   We are all guilty of going there.   I had to eat my words recently from John I think. 

You haven't read an argument, I haven't defended against.  If you don't want to discuss them fine by me, I'm lazy anyway, less typing.
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on August 08, 2012, 12:31:50 AM
You could have saved us both time had you read the Bible and History of the church, what's your point?

BTW, do you intend your posts to be so condescending and presumptively correct, or is it something you are not aware of.   We are all guilty of going there.   I had to eat my words recently from John I think. 

You haven't read an argument, I haven't defended against.  If you don't want to discuss them fine by me, I'm lazy anyway, less typing.



I'm still waiting for you to field any semblance of an argument for your views.  All you seem to have time for is to voice meaningless opinion!


Quasar
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Catalyst on August 09, 2012, 07:39:46 PM


I'm still waiting for you to field any semblance of an argument for your views.  All you seem to have time for is to voice meaningless opinion!


Quasar

Stop posturing.  Seriously.  I have yet to give an opinion that wasn't paraphrasing or listing scripture.  (Offensive comment removed by moderators), let me know, OR ask questions to verify, qualify, investigate and stop posing as a tough intellectual behemoth and condescending to me.
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on August 13, 2012, 09:39:03 AM
Stick to the issues and off of your personal allegations!

What is your feedback pertaining to the following claims?

1. http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/catholic_heresies-a_list.htm

2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Catholic_Church


Quasar
 



 
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Catalyst on August 14, 2012, 12:01:19 AM
After your presumptive and condescending post 6, you forfeited the right to say my response is wrong because its not nice, when its no where near as hateful as your comments were. 

You posture.  You don't talk with, but at. 

Pick one of those topics and ask me a question, I will defend my faith, but you ignore 9/10s of the specifics in every post I made that you attacked, so forgive me if I'm sick and tired of putting thought in effort for you to ignore.
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on August 16, 2012, 11:59:14 AM
Revelation 17

© 10-12 Colin Melbourne
Who Is The Woman on the Beast?

Q Can you explain who the woman and the beast are, and the meaning of Babylon, in the Revelation prophecy Chapter 17?

A You refer to Rev. 17:3 KJV where John writes:

I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

God first introduced her as the great whore (Rev. 17:1). She is characterized vividly using all capitals in Rev. 17:5 KJV;

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

All capital letters. Do you think the LORD, and His chosen translators, are trying to get our attention? Contemplate; this is His last message to us in the climactic book of the Holy Bible before He returns.

The identity of the wicked woman is vital to us in these Last Days. She's the kind of woman fathers warn their teenage sons about. Yet most Christians remain clueless who the "woman" is, and the danger "she" poses.

Who the woman on the scarlet beast is was a mystery when the vision was given to John, but has been made crystal clear since the sixteenth century Reformation.
Image of the book A Woman Rides the Beast


<< A Woman
Rides the Beast: A powerful tool gently exposing who Catholics are really following, and where they are going. Lead your Catholic friends and relatives to the Living Christ today.
Mystery Woman Revealed

There's no need for guesswork, the Lord has revealed who she is; the Word of God makes it plain by scripture, in the light of subsequent history, and through current events.

Here's how Christ described the woman to the Apostle John. His angel said, Rev. 17:1 KJV;

I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

In the Spirit, John then saw a woman dressed in red and purple clothes, the main colours of Catholicism, sitting astride a scarlet beast covered in blasphemies. Rev. 17:4-5 KJV;

And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

The Bible also calls her the great city, Rev. 17:18; And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

The Protestant Reformers from John Wycliffe to John Huss, Martin Luther, John Bradford, John Calvin, John Knox, and the man who translated your New Testament into English, William Tyndale, each unequivocally identified the woman on the beast with the city of Rome, meaning; Catholicism, and the Papacy, residing within Rome's Vatican City.
Picture of Pope worshipping a Fatima idol

The woman is the city of Rome, specifically Vatican City; and the scarlet beast is the spiritual and worldly empire it controls: The Roman Catholic church and Catholic believers in many nations.
The Scarlet Beast

The beast had seven heads and ten horns, representing successive rulers and authorities of the beast's Roman empire: "Babylon". Rev. 17:3.

"Babylon" is used as a pseudonym for Rome four times in Rev. 17 and 18, and the epithet was widely adopted by Christians following the bloodthirsty persecutions of Nero and Diocletian. Roman Catholics claim the Apostle Peter stayed in Rome based on his use of the term "Babylon" in 1 Pe. 5:13; however there's no scriptural evidence that Peter ever went to Rome at all, and he probably penned his epistle from what remained of the literal Babylon in Mesopotamia.

The scarlet beast represents the Roman Catholic church throughout the world, the Vatican's Empire.
Catholics controlled by The Great Whore

Significantly, God also says the great whore sits upon many waters, and His angel explains the meaning of the "many waters" in Rev. 17:15 KJV:

The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

These are the billions of people down the ages in bondage to Catholicism, whether by coercion, tradition, or choice. God says the whore sits on them; that is, controls and dominates their lives.

Actes and Monuments facsimile on CDROM

<< 1583 Foxe's Martyrs: Written, illustrated, and published by eyewitnesses. Read first-hand accounts of the black-doings of popery, and the enormous price paid by our Christian brothers and sisters, who defied Satan and stood for Christ.

Who dictates how Catholics should worship, live, eat, and reproduce? Their national government, or themselves perhaps? No, the Vatican, through its pontificating infallible popes control Catholics' beliefs, and attempts to direct every detail of their lives, using, fear, guilt, and the threat of excommunication and damnation.
City on Seven Hills

God specifies that the woman is a city on seven hills who rules over multitudes of peoples, and kings of the earth. Rev. 17:9,17. Jerusalem is built on seven hills, as is Rio de Janeiro, but they have never possessed the dominant trans-national power that Rome and the Vatican have abused for centuries. Only the Roman Vatican City-State qualifies.

Continued: Rebuilding Babylon: The AntiChrist's Final Holy Roman Empire
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Overaged on December 04, 2012, 03:27:55 AM
How do you feel about  Tradition for example. 

Rome's position is MUCH more biblical than us protestants are.   
The Biblical view of "tradition"  is a subject that I feel is poorly understood by many, both Roman Catholic and Protestant. It is, however, a subject that I find very interesting, and enriching to my spiritual pilgrimage on this earth.

"Tradition" is a Biblical concept, but do we have Biblical concepts about it?

As an example; here is just one text:

2Th 2:15  "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

Both Roman Catholic and Protestant scholars quote this text yet the respective views thereof are definitely polarized.

Whose position is really "biblical" since both sides quote the same Bible text re "tradition?"
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on December 04, 2012, 09:27:29 AM
After your presumptive and condescending post 6, you forfeited the right to say my response is wrong because its not nice, when its no where near as hateful as your comments were. 

You posture.  You don't talk with, but at. 

Pick one of those topics and ask me a question, I will defend my faith, but you ignore 9/10s of the specifics in every post I made that you attacked, so forgive me if I'm sick and tired of putting thought in effort for you to ignore.



Show me what has been presumptive and condescending to any of the Scriptural or historical facts I have posted.  Just what have I ignored that you are so indignant about?

FYI, the Catholic church was not the originally established Church founded by Jesus and ministered to by HIS apostles until their death.  James, the brother of Jesus was the first Bishop in the Jerusalem Christian church.   


Quasar
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on December 04, 2012, 09:51:04 AM
You asked previously what my thoughts were pertaining to the Apostolic Authority, which I have not up to now responded to.

They are mostly all from the second century on until the 4th or 5th century after Jesus and all His disciple were gone and most of the early Christians scattered everywhere.

They brought to the Church such things as Amillennialism, Supersessionism/Replacement theology as well as the doctrine of the Trinity which neither Jesus nor His apostles ever taught. and there are many other heresies the church fathers taught as well.  Many were purged from the church long ago.

As I stated in a previous post, James the brother of Jesus was the first Bishop of the Christian Church in Jerusalem, and there were no Popes until about the 5th century.

"440-461 — Pope Leo I. Many historians suggest that Pope Leo is the first to claim universal jurisdiction over the worldwide Church, thus initiating the rise of the papacy, a uniquely Roman Catholic structure. "


Quasar

Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Overaged on December 04, 2012, 10:28:59 AM


James, the brother of Jesus was the first Bishop in the Jerusalem Christian church.   


Quasar
Well; here is something from the Bible on that:
Quote
1Pe 2:25  For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
Seems that Jesus was/is the first Bishop
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: me again on December 04, 2012, 11:34:57 AM
The Biblical view of "tradition"  is a subject that I feel is poorly understood by many, both Roman Catholic and Protestant. It is, however, a subject that I find very interesting, and enriching to my spiritual pilgrimage on this earth.

"Tradition" is a Biblical concept, but do we have Biblical concepts about it?

As an example; here is just one text:

2Th 2:15  "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

Both Roman Catholic and Protestant scholars quote this text yet the respective views thereof are definitely polarized.

Whose position is really "biblical" since both sides quote the same Bible text re "tradition?"

Many people also say that "religion" is bad, but what does the bible say about religion?

James 1:26-27

 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


Pure religion is good, according to the bible.  ;D

Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: me again on December 04, 2012, 11:39:53 AM
Quote
Q Can you explain who the woman and the beast are, and the meaning of Babylon, in the Revelation prophecy Chapter 17?

IMO the woman represents false religion, such as apostatized churches that are ordaining homosexuals or Islamist who advocate cutting off the heads of non-Muslims who refuse to accept their Muslim doctrines. They are false doctrines that draw people away from biblical doctrines and from salvation.
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on December 05, 2012, 12:45:45 AM
Well; here is something from the Bible on that:Seems that Jesus was/is the first Bishop



First of all reference was to the first human Bishop of the Christian Church, who was James, in the Church in Jerusalem, on the Mount of Olives.  Destroyed by the Roman Emperor Hadrian in the Bar Kokhba revolt in 135 A.D.  When he renamed Jerusalem, Capitolina.

The KJV is the only translation that uses the term "bishop" in 1 Pet.2:25.  The NASB uses the term "Guardian of your souls," and the NIV uses the term, "Overseers of your souls."

Jesus was never called a Bishop, but is the founder and head of His one body, the Church.  He holds three titles, as King, Chief Priest and Prophet, the only person to hold all three offices in the history of Israel.

See the following for the first Bishop of the Christian Church:

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2010/01/23/the-first-bishop-of-the-christian-church-in-jerusa-2/

See the following for the Bar Kokhba revolt and renaming of Jerusalem:

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2009/12/20/was-jerusalem-ever-renamed/


Quasar
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Overaged on December 05, 2012, 06:03:24 AM

The KJV is the only translation that uses the term "bishop" in 1 Pet.2:25.  The NASB uses the term "Guardian of your souls," and the NIV uses the term, "Overseers of your souls."
Well; my Bible is quite clear; 1 Pet 2:25 does call Him "Bishop;" but "guardian" also fits. There is no Bible reason to omit use of "Bishop" in the KJV

Quote
Jesus was never called a Bishop, but is the founder and head of His one body, the Church.  He holds three titles, as King, Chief Priest and Prophet, the only person to hold all three offices in the history of Israel.


Quasar
I don't see much difference between overseer or head of the Church; and to me, Jesus was the first head of the church. Others, such as you are mentioning came after Jesus.

Perhaps tho I am a little screwy on this and you need to set me straight; I don't know. Are you just talking about the Roman Catholic Church, when you talk about the first Bishop in this topic?
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on December 05, 2012, 10:26:25 AM
To the best of my knowledge, the discussion is about a critique of the Roman Catholic Church.  From which comes the history of Christianity with a view of their claims vs the historical Christian facts.

The term "Catholic" was not heard of until late in the second century, by Tertullian.  So the listings of Popes, beginning with Peter is nothing more than one of their concoctions that did not even begin until the 5th century, when Leo I was the Pope, as I previously posted.  When it was decided the RCC should have one leader over their entire church.

Jesus was far more than just a Bishop, as coined by Peter in 1 Pet.2:25, as I also addressed previously.  Paul hit the nail on the head when he referred to Jesus as the head of the body of the Church in Col.1:16, to say nothing of being the firstborn over all creation, and creating everything in heaven and on earth.

His most frequent titles were, the Son of Man, Master and Rabbi.


Quasar
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on December 05, 2012, 10:45:49 AM
Quote by Overage:


2Th 2:15  "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

Both Roman Catholic and Protestant scholars quote this text yet the respective views thereof are definitely polarized.

Whose position is really "biblical" since both sides quote the same Bible text re "tradition?"

End of quote.



That is an ambiguous remark in that it is properly understood by the man made views of Catholicism as found in all of the Creeds as well as their Catachisms vs the pure teachings of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, directly from the untainted Bible.

The claim the RCC makes as to Sola Scriptura teachings falling short of that which is necessary for obtaining our salvation and other Biblical doctrine and theology is far from what the facts are as opposed to the Christian churches that do.  The Creeds are a good example.


Quasar
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on December 05, 2012, 11:26:23 AM
Many people also say that "religion" is bad, but what does the bible say about religion?

James 1:26-27

 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


Pure religion is good, according to the bible.  ;D



James doesn't know how lucky he was in his day; not having to deal with such as the following we have to struggle with today!  :)

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2009/12/20/there-are-40-organized-religions/

See also:

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2011/03/26/wity-all-of-the-different-religions-how-can-i-know/


Quasar
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Overaged on December 05, 2012, 11:42:22 AM
To the best of my knowledge, the discussion is about a critique of the Roman Catholic Church.  From which comes the history of Christianity with a view of their claims vs the historical Christian facts.

So are you trying to say that the Roman catholic Church was "the first Church?"
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on December 05, 2012, 12:06:43 PM
IMO the woman represents false religion, such as apostatized churches that are ordaining homosexuals or Islamist who advocate cutting off the heads of non-Muslims who refuse to accept their Muslim doctrines. They are false doctrines that draw people away from biblical doctrines and from salvation.



A false religion is exactly what the RCC is. Babylon the Great, mother of all prostitutes of Rev.17, sits on "many waters," with the kings of the earth committing adultry with her:  She sits on seven mountains = Rome; on many waters = throughout the world; the kings of the earth committing adultry with her = The RCC ran the nations of the world up to the 16th century.

There are other major religions, but only three of them struggling for a piece of Jerusalem; Israel; Islam and the RCC.  [Christianity is not involved].  The Bible reveals who the enemies of Israel were, and IMO, still are today, in Ps.82:5-7, from whom the ten horns will more than likely come from, whom the beast [antichrist], will lead and give kingdoms to for "one hour."

The woman sits on both beasts and ten horns [nations] until the latter kills the woman, according to Rev.17:16 [The RCC], and sets up the one world religion according to Rev.13:14-15 and 2 Thes.2:4.

They are the ones who will fight the Lord and His armies from heaven in the battle of Armageddon, according to Rev.19:11-20.

Hope this is helpful.


Quasar 

 
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: me again on December 05, 2012, 09:46:44 PM
A false religion is exactly what the RCC is. Babylon the Great, mother of all prostitutes of Rev.17, sits on "many waters," with the kings of the earth committing adultry with her:  She sits on seven mountains = Rome; on many waters = throughout the world; the kings of the earth committing adultry with her = The RCC ran the nations of the world up to the 16th century.

Naw, that's not the RCC. LOL. Rev. 17 is symbolic of false religion (not the RCC). However, I acknowledge that it's a popular theological opinion in North American Protestantism.  :o
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Overaged on December 05, 2012, 10:38:04 PM
Naw, that's not the RCC. LOL. Rev. 17 is symbolic of false religion (not the RCC).
I am curious as to what makes you say this? Are there Bible texts within Rev 17, or elsewhere in the Bible that you would use to support what you have just said here?
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Overaged on December 05, 2012, 10:53:54 PM
A false religion is exactly what the RCC is.
Why then, are there some Roman Catholics who have much more connection to Jesus, that do some Adventists?

What is the outlook, in terms of eternity, for those who belong to a "false religion?" Are they all doomed to eternal hell-fire?

And who gets to say what a "false religion" is?
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on December 05, 2012, 11:22:42 PM
Naw, that's not the RCC. LOL. Rev. 17 is symbolic of false religion (not the RCC). However, I acknowledge that it's a popular theological opinion in North American Protestantism.  :o


Then after all this you don't believe the RCC is a false religion?  Would you be a willing member of the RCC?

See the following opinions of others who belirve the mother of all prostitutes is, in Rev.17:

http://www.the-bible-antichrist.com/babylon-the-great.html

http://www.whatsaiththescripture.com/Prophecy/Mystery.Babylon.the.Great.html

Which is only the tip of the iceberg of expositors who see the RCC as the great whore of Babylon in Rev.17.


Quasar
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on December 05, 2012, 11:59:34 PM
Why then, are there some Roman Catholics who have much more connection to Jesus, that do some Adventists?

What is the outlook, in terms of eternity, for those who belong to a "false religion?" Are they all doomed to eternal hell-fire?

And who gets to say what a "false religion" is?



After Receiving Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior in August of 1937, I have never witnessed any Catholic with "more connection to Jesus" than a true born again Christian.  To the contrary, it is very much the other way.  There is far more secular attention focused on Catholicism than on true Christianity.  IMO, the main reason being, because there is so much research has to be done in order to find true Christian organizations, the media takes the easy road out and most always seeks out the Catholic agendas.

There are members of the Catholic church who were previously, and now have, since the 50s, quit delivering their Masses in Latin, and started doing so in English.  And allowing their members to own Bibles of their own, who also know Jesus as their Lord now and are therefore members of the one body of Christ, His Church, and have obtained their salvation.  They won't all be lost by any means.

As for "who gets to say what a false religion is ?,"  All those who ar good students of the Bible will have no trouble determining the "false spirits," and "false prophets," the world is full of in our present day society,  Review 2 Tim.4:3-4; 2 Pet.2:1-22 and 1 Jn.4:1-3.


Quasar
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: me again on December 06, 2012, 10:46:55 AM
I am curious as to what makes you say this? Are there Bible texts within Rev 17, or elsewhere in the Bible that you would use to support what you have just said here?
There is a woman (Mary Kathryn Baxter) who was taken to hell and to heaven by the Lord -- and then He told her to "tell my people" that those places really do exist and there really is an afterlife. There is so much unbelief in the world. So many people believe that when they die, that's it i.e. there is no judgement or eternity. Anyways, when she was in hell (as an observer with Jesus), she saw many unconverted priests, pastors, preachers and Christians; and she described people like that as Rev. 17. I agree with her analysis.
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Overaged on December 06, 2012, 10:49:04 AM
So this lady thinks she saw Jesus in hell?
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: me again on December 06, 2012, 10:52:25 AM
Then after all this you don't believe the RCC is a false religion? 

LOL, no, of course not!

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Would you be a willing member of the RCC?

My allegiance is first and foremost to our Lord, but having said that, to answer your question, yes.  :o

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See the following opinions of others who belirve the mother of all prostitutes is, in Rev.17:

http://www.the-bible-antichrist.com/babylon-the-great.html

http://www.whatsaiththescripture.com/Prophecy/Mystery.Babylon.the.Great.html

Yes, the destiny for those who partake in mystery Babylon is definitely hell.

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Which is only the tip of the iceberg of expositors who see the RCC as the great whore of Babylon in Rev.17.

Oh no, I still don't see the RCC as being anti-Christian or anti-Christ.  ;D
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: me again on December 06, 2012, 11:01:00 AM
Why then, are there some Roman Catholics who have much more connection to Jesus, that do some Adventists?

There are unequivocally many Adventists who love Jesus and they are born again. Similarly, there are many Catholics who love Jesus and they are born again. They are both brothers in Christ, even if they don't realize it.

The bible doesn't say that a person has to be 100% doctrinally correct to enter the kingdom of heaven. If that were the case, then no one could enter His kingdom!!!

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What is the outlook, in terms of eternity, for those who belong to a "false religion?" Are they all doomed to eternal hell-fire?

And who gets to say what a "false religion" is?

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man gets to the Father, except by me." Jesus alone knows who His sheep are and they hear His voice.

Here's an example of a false religion:

There was an expose on Peter Popoff in the 1980s where journalistic reporters caught him and his wife using electronic technology to radio him specific messages about people in the audience. For example, John Doe may have filled out a pre-conference questionnaire about himself and then submitted it to the Popoff ministry. The questionnaire described his name, address, ailments (knee problem), etc. Peter Popoff's wife then radioed this information to Peter Popoff and he received the info in an earpiece. He would say, "Is there a John Doe in the audience? The Holy Spirit is telling me that you have a knee problem..." That could be described as a false religion or as mystery Babylon. He is fleecing the flock for his own sustenance. The Lord will hold him accountable.
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: me again on December 06, 2012, 11:08:32 AM
There are members of the Catholic church who were previously, and now have, since the 50s, quit delivering their Masses in Latin, and started doing so in English.  And allowing their members to own Bibles of their own, who also know Jesus as their Lord now and are therefore members of the one body of Christ, His Church, and have obtained their salvation.  They won't all be lost by any means.

Vatican II (1964?) abolished the Latin mass and replaced it with a mass in the native tongue of the people. It also specifically encouraged Catholics to read their bibles.

My mother was (or is?) a Catholic. When I first read the bible and tried to describe it to her, she criticized me and said that priests have undergone 7 years of seminary and it's best to leave biblical interpretation up to them. She is a classic example of the pre-Vatican II (1964?) attitude that many people had.

It's my understanding that there are varying levels of belief, understanding and revelation among all individuals within all denominations. It boils down to the individual.
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on December 06, 2012, 12:59:26 PM
First of all I believe you may have misunderstood some of what I have written, me again. 

First of all, I already wrote there are many Catholics from the past to the present who are definitely members of the one body of Christ.  The second point is, I did not refer to the RCC as the beast/antichrist, but raher, that they are a false religion, whom the beast and ten nations allied to them are going to destroy during the seven year tribulation.

All members of the false RCC who believe they are Christians by simply being members of the Catholic church, but never committing themselves to, or confessing Jesus is their Lord, will be those who make up the great prostitute of Rev.17.

Incidentally, all of my great grandparents who immigrated to this country from the alsace-Lorraine region were Catholic, as well as all seven of their children. 

The following sources will provide you with teasons why the Roman Catholic church is false:

Origin of the RCC:
http://www.gotquestions.org/origin-Catholic-church.html

Amillennialism:  http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2010/07/16/origin-of-amillennialism-and-the-replacement-theol/

Replacement Theology/Supersessionism:  http://www.midnightcall.com/articles/prophetic/item/645-what-is-Amillennialismreplacement-theology

The Crusades: 
http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Hist/H-0601.htm

The Inquisitions:
http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Hist/H-0701.htm

RCC exegetical errors:  http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2012/05/17/catholic-eschatological-exegesis/#post0   

The Trinity:  http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/doctrine/the%20origin%20of%20the%20trinity.htm


Quasar
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: me again on December 06, 2012, 01:05:48 PM
All members of the false RCC who believe they are Christians by simply being members of the Catholic church, but never committing themselves to, or confessing Jesus is their Lord, will be those who make up the great prostitute of Rev.17.

That is true, but that application should not be exclusively applied to the RCC; it should be equally applied to all Christian denominations i.e. All members of all Christian denominations who believe they are Christians by simply being members of their Christian denomination, but never committing themselves to, or confessing Jesus is their Lord, will be those who make up the great prostitute of Rev. 17. IMO singling out the RCC with this application is incorrect because it is applicable to all Christian denominations.
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on December 06, 2012, 01:22:03 PM
The RCC has been singled out because the religion is false, as has been previously exposed.  All other non-believers will also go through the seven year tribulation, who may or may not be affiliated with any other religion.

Review the facts.


Quasar
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: me again on December 06, 2012, 05:09:38 PM
The RCC has been singled out because the religion is false, as has been previously exposed.  All other non-believers will also go through the seven year tribulation, who may or may not be affiliated with any other religion.

Radical Islam is a false prophet that violently opposes the Gospel of Christ -- and is an ant-Christ. This antichrist is now sitting in God's place on the Temple Mount (Dome of the Rock). The RCC isn't anti-Christ.  :o
Title: Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on December 06, 2012, 11:45:01 PM
Radical Islam is a false prophet that violently opposes the Gospel of Christ -- and is an ant-Christ. This antichrist is now sitting in God's place on the Temple Mount (Dome of the Rock). The RCC isn't anti-Christ.  :o



I have twice corrected the view you keep expressing that I am claiming the RCC is antichrist - which I have not, and do not!  They are a false religion according to the facts presented, not antichris

Islam does not sit on seven mountains [Not hills - per the NIV] nor did they exist during Jesus first advent as the Roman empire did, so they do not fulfill Dan.7:7 which points to Rev.17, as the renewed fourth beast covered in verses 8-11.  Islam will participate in the seven year tribulation as the ten horns [nations] allied to the two beasts [the AC and the FP] as I pointed out previously, in Ps.83:5-7.

I do not consider the Dome of the Rock to be God's temple as it is nothing more than a shrine covering the "rock where Abraham was about to slay his son, Ishmael."  [Their claim - not mine!].

And yes Islam is a false religion, as are many others, but none of them fit the prophetic Scriptures as does the RCC, in that capacity.  They have bastardized the true Christian teachings of Jesus and His Apostles, as the records reveal.  Above all, they are the perpetrators of the Replacement theology, by teaching the church replaced Israel as God's chosen people, and therefore they sacrified all the promises and covenants God made with them, that now belongs to the church.

A review of Gen.12:1-3 will reveal the reason for the RCC to be cursed by God, in addition to not recognizing Israel as a nation until very recently.  As well as denying Israel's right to claim Jerusalem as ther capitol.


Quasar