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SCHOOL of THEOLOGY => Prophecy & End Time Events => Topic started by: Quasar on June 26, 2012, 10:57:03 AM

Title: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on June 26, 2012, 10:57:03 AM
THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST

During Roman occupation it was illegal for citizens to criticise the Roman leadership. If the Jews wanted to criticize, they would have to invent a code language. Babylon for instance was the code for the Roman Empire. The Whore of Babylon would be the name for the Caesar. The heads of the beast would be representative of the power structure of the Roman Empire.

666 would refer to Nero Caesar. In the Hebrew Art of Gematria, every letter has a numeric value. If you convert Nero Caesar to Hebrew and convert it to Gematria you will get the number 666. The Letter N in Hebrew has a value of 50. When you convert Nero in Hebrew, it would be Neron, but some jews would say Nero, meaning it could be 616 or 666. Old manuscripts of the book of Revelations also have 616 instead of 666. Again, this need to use numbers instead of names was used in order to avoid directly criticizing the political establishment for fear of being arrested.

If you want a further analysis read the chapter on Revelations in Bart D Ehrman's book: "A historical introduction into early christian writings". Professor Ehrman teaches at the university of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. He is a textual critic of early Christian Writings.

SO TO HEBREW GEMMATRIA WE MUST TURN IF WE ARE TO MAKE SENSE OF THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST BEING THE NUMBER OF A MAN...

If we use a Hebrew Aramaic Gemmatrial system (where each Hebrew Letter has a corresponding NUMBER attached) the system works like this:

ALEPH =1 = (' )
BETH =2 =B
GIMMEL =3 =G
DALED =4 =D
HEH =5 =H
VAV =6 =V and O
TSAYIN =7 = Z
CHET =8 = CH
TET =9 = T
YUD =10 = Y or I
KAPH =20 = K
LAMED =30 = L
MEM =40 = M
NUN =50 = N
SAMEK =60 = S
Q'AYIN =70 = 'Q
PHE =80 = F
TSADEH = 90 = TZ
QUPH =100 = Q or K or hard C
RESH =200 = R
SHIN/SHIN =300 = S or SH
TAV =400 = T or TH

Since the Apocalypse of Yohanon the Elder (Book of Revelation) has TWO competing gemmatria for the "name of the beast", and was written during the 1st Jewish War against Rome (AD 66-72) the correct individual would presumably have to fit both 616 and 666 found in the 2 competing manuscript families for this marginal insertion...

The Roman Emperor NERO fits the bill nicely (he was the infamous sadistic but "Divine" Emperor-Caesar of Rome in AD 66 when the Revolt in Judaea broke out and used to burn Jews (i.e. Jewish Messianic Christians) in Rome in his gardens by dipping them in tar so they'd be able to light up the courtyard better!)

The Emperor Nero's hidden "gemmatrial" (i.e. Kaballistic-numerological) name in Hebrew Letters (with the letter VAV used for LONG O) would have been either written in Hebrew letters as: N R O N Q S R (=666, add them up) = this is the preferred version as spoken by the Greeks or else as: N R O Q S R (i.e. 616).

NERO was probably the original intent of the writer, but the "Book of Revelation"was re-written so many times in its long literary history, (e.g. in 96 AD (re-edited) with another Emperor (Nero-Domitian) in mind, and the text was applied to every succeeding generation where "persecution of the Elect" was in effect.)

Despite the "rhetoric of hope" for the "Elect" in the Book of Revelation which was meant to strengthen the resolve of those fighting the "Beast" contrary to the hopes of the writer, Jerusalem did not descend from the sky as promised, and 900,000 Palestinian Jews lost their lives in a war which, according to Josephus, should not have been ever fought in the first place...

From:  http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread80914/pg1

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Quasar

Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Zaph on July 01, 2012, 06:33:21 PM
Or for different view you can try  666 Truth (http://www.666truth.org/)
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on July 02, 2012, 10:09:07 AM
Or for different view you can try  666 Truth (http://www.666truth.org/)



Doug Batchelor, of Amazing Facts,  makes a very convincing case for the Pope being the antichrist and number 666.  However, there are some factors involved he did not address and some he stretched into making the Scriptures fit his views in the interpretation of them.

The first point is, those who are going to be sealed in Rev.7:1-8, are the 144,000 Israelite converted evangelists God will place on the earth to take the place of the raptured Church, and have nothing at all to do with the Church saints.

The second point is, the Church will not go through the seven year tribulation, but rather, will be caught up together with them [All the dead in Christ] in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, according to 1 Thes.4:17, before the seven year tribulation begins.  Recorded in 2 Thes.2:3, when they depart [Greek "apostasia" and Latin "discessio"] and "are taken out of the way." in vs 7, before the man of lawlessness [Mr.666] is revealed.  The same person as all the "he's" in Dan.9:27.

The third point is, the term saints in Rev.13:7 refer to those whom the 144,000 Israelite evangelists will bring to the Lord during the tribulation.  Who are seen in the parenthetic Great Multitude of Rev.7:9-17, who are also the martyred saints who will participate in the first resurrection, according to Rev.20:4 and 6.

The fourth point is, all Biblical prophecy is directed directly or indirectly around Israel, not the Church, including all that is written in Daniel. 

The fifth point is, Mr. Batchelor alluded to the dragon of Rev.13 as that of both Rome as well as Satan, which is non-Scriptural  Rev.12:9 clearly reveals what is meant when the term dragon is used in prophecy.

The sixth point is, Mr.666 was aleady dead at the time John wrote the vision Jesus gave him, in Rev.17:8 and 11, whom the dragon, Satan will bring up out of the Abyss, who triggers the 70th and last Week of God's decree upon the destiny of Israel/ the seven year tribulation - one and the same, recorded as all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27 and the rider on the white horse in Rev.6:2.  So it cannot be the Pope of the RCC.

Therefore the Jewish belief that Nero(n) is Mr. 666 has valid credence.

The seventh point is, the Mystery Babylon, the Great Mother of all Prostitutes is, IMO, the RCC, the false church, who Mr.666 and the ten horns [nations] allied with him will destroy according to Rev.17:16, and will then himself set up the one world church as found in Rev.13:14-17 and 2 Thes.2:4.


Quasar 


Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Zaph on July 05, 2012, 02:17:33 PM
I'm not real interested in going back and forth over this. Everyone needs to study these things out for themselves. However, I will say that Doug Batchelor is in good company when it comes to believing that the Pope/Papacy being the antichrist. A good portion of the reformers believed the same.

http://www.christiantrumpetsounding.com/reformation_views.htm
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on July 16, 2012, 01:07:56 PM
There are many who think the Pope is going to be the antichrist.  I have already written by the Scriptures why that cannot be.  Do you think either those who hold to Judaism and Islam are going to accept any covenant made by a Catholic Pope?  I don't think so.

I noticed from my last post where I wrotethe following:

"Therefore the Jewish belief that Nero(n) is Mr. 666 has valid credence."  the Hebrew number 666 is arrived at by the use of the complete spelling of Neron's name.  With the letter "n" left off, the Hebrew nuber is reduced to 616.  Which is why some people insist that is what the number of the beast should be.

 
Quasar
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on July 16, 2012, 06:31:27 PM
There are many who think the Pope is going to be the antichrist.  I have already written by the Scriptures why that cannot be.  Do you think either those who hold to Judaism and Islam are going to accept any covenant made by a Catholic Pope?  I don't think so.

I noticed from my last post where I wrotethe following:

"Therefore the Jewish belief that Nero(n) is Mr. 666 has valid credence."  the Hebrew number 666 is arrived at by the use of the complete spelling of Neron's name.  With the letter "n" left off, the Hebrew nuber is reduced to 616.  Which is why some people insist that is what the number of the beast should be.

 
Quasar

There are some Christians who are believe that when the Ottoman Empire (Muslim empire) was destroyed, that it was the wounded head -- and that the revival of the Muslum beast is what the scriptures are referring to.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on July 17, 2012, 12:39:22 AM
That's an interesting point of view, me again, but the beasts are both described in Rev.13 along with the dragon.  The two bests are real human men and the dragon is Satan.

The revival of Islam is abundantly clear, while at the same time, the Scriptures declare the fourth beast of Daniel 7, was the Roman empire, and the same one that will be in existence at the return of Christ - such as the EU, which is a unification of nations who made up the Roman empire during Jesus first advent.

Take care.


Quasar
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Nats on November 28, 2012, 07:25:24 PM
I'm going to go against all traditional teaching and say the number we're supposed to be counting is not 666.

KJV
Rev 13:18 
Here is wisdom.
Let him that hath understanding
count the number of the beast:
for it is the number of a man;
and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

his number is chi xi stigma.

Scholars throughout the centuries have always rendered the number as "666," But is it correct? There is another way to see it that, in my opinion, may bring more value to the study...


Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on November 28, 2012, 10:36:16 PM
I'm going to go against all traditional teaching and say the number we're supposed to be counting is not 666.

KJV
Rev 13:18 
Here is wisdom.
Let him that hath understanding
count the number of the beast:
for it is the number of a man;
and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

his number is chi xi stigma.

Scholars throughout the centuries have always rendered the number as "666," But is it correct? There is another way to see it that, in my opinion, may bring more value to the study...

Below is a cut-and-paste on a theory of how the original Greek symbols were incorrectly translated into 666:

Below (left) are photos of Greek symbols translated in the Bible as 666.  The gold symbol (bottom and right) is Arabic for "Allah" when turned and mirrored.  Additionally, crossed swords are a symbol for Islam.  So in 666 we may find symbols for both "Islam" and "Allah".

(http://www.beholdthebeast.com/16479040.jpg)

Unvalidated Source:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam__quran_and_666.htm
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on November 29, 2012, 12:09:33 PM
Thanks for sharing that link.  The number of the beast is pretty unanamous as related to the many Bible translations, per the following:

http://bible.cc/revelation/13-18.htm


Quasar
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Nats on November 29, 2012, 05:30:34 PM
Hi me again,  :)
are you buying that theory?
I'm not, regarding Rev.13:18
The Hebrew play's a part in this though.
The Greek play's apart in this too. (obviously)

1st thing is, Who is it talking to?
Him/her that has understanding.

What does it tell those of understanding to do?
Count the number.

One can't have or be given understanding without a real good working knowledge of the scriptures. Our answers are in the scriptures.

I agree the number 666 is unanamously thought to be correct and understand how they get 6,60,600 = 666.
I don't have any problem with that.
I just don't think it's what we're supposed to be looking at or for. I'm still the only one I know that considers it to be something else. But I take it for what it says to do to find the wisdom in it.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on November 29, 2012, 06:21:37 PM
Hi me again,  :)
are you buying that theory?

I have no idea! But it's an interesting theory nonetheless!  :o

Quote

I'm not, regarding Rev.13:18
The Hebrew play's a part in this though.
The Greek play's apart in this too. (obviously)

1st thing is, Who is it talking to?
Him/her that has understanding.

What does it tell those of understanding to do?
Count the number.

One can't have or be given understanding without a real good working knowledge of the scriptures. Our answers are in the scriptures.

I agree the number 666 is unanamously thought to be correct and understand how they get 6,60,600 = 666.
I don't have any problem with that.
I just don't think it's what we're supposed to be looking at or for. I'm still the only one I know that considers it to be something else. But I take it for what it says to do to find the wisdom in it.

What is your theory?  :o
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on November 30, 2012, 10:26:23 AM
Hi me again,  :)
are you buying that theory?
I'm not, regarding Rev.13:18
The Hebrew play's a part in this though.
The Greek play's apart in this too. (obviously)

1st thing is, Who is it talking to?
Him/her that has understanding.

What does it tell those of understanding to do?
Count the number.

One can't have or be given understanding without a real good working knowledge of the scriptures. Our answers are in the scriptures.

I agree the number 666 is unanamously thought to be correct and understand how they get 6,60,600 = 666.
I don't have any problem with that.
I just don't think it's what we're supposed to be looking at or for. I'm still the only one I know that considers it to be something else. But I take it for what it says to do to find the wisdom in it.



Keep in mind, the vision was provided to us by the scribe for Jesus own testimony, his apostle John.  Most every translation of the Bible shows the number of the beast to be 666.  With that having been said, I'm curious, like me again, what is your opinion?


Quasar
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Stan on December 09, 2012, 10:40:28 AM
Just an interesting thought, if you add all the existing number/letters up to and including 500 you get

I = 1
V = 5
X = 10
L = 50
C = 100
D = 500

Total is 666
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on December 09, 2012, 11:20:30 AM
Just an interesting thought, if you add all the existing number/letters up to and including 500 you get

I = 1
V = 5
X = 10
L = 50
C = 100
D = 500

Total is 666



Interesting observation,  What does 666 look like in Roman numerals ?

666 = DCLXVI

Looks very much the same as yours, doesn't it ?


Merry Christmas and a Happy 2013 = MMXIII, guys!


Quasar
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on December 09, 2012, 11:51:31 AM
You may not have the time or patience to read it, but here is a long post from a Muslim who says that 666 is the number of Allah:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1971221/posts

Here is the theory, as I understand it.

1. The following symbol was given by John the revelator (this pic is missing the crossed Islamic swords, but they are in the 3rd pic below):

(http://www.newsbleat.com/666_2.jpg)

2. The translators didn't have an appropriate translation of the above symbol into Greek -- and the closest they could get in Greek is 666, as follows:

(http://www.newsbleat.com/666_1.jpg)

3. Here is a more accurate side-by-side comparison of the two symbols. The top symbol is Arabic for Allah and the bottom symbol is 666 in Greek:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jw2qJyIdx5Y/SHKyDD4bZdI/AAAAAAAAAG0/XpcYGp6OcGc/s400/Number+of+the+Beast+real+codex+vaticanus.jpg)
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on December 10, 2012, 12:07:25 PM
Very high confusion factor at the link you gave us, me again.

From that site was this remark:

"The Quran, 666 was revealed to Muhammed, 92 in the year 610."


Since the Quran was not published until long after the Revelation Jesus gave to the apostle John, it's curious Muhammed would know anything about it at all until after finding it himself in Revelation.

By whose letter numerical system did they go by?  Nothing works in relation to the Hebrew text except the Hebrew.  The Greek numerical system will not work.  Nor did Satan change any of the God breathed Scriptures that make up our Bible.

In the Hebrew, the number 666 is a formulation to the name of the Roman emperor, Nero(n), as previously addressed. 


Quasar
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on December 10, 2012, 02:44:48 PM
Very high confusion factor at the link you gave us, me again.

From that site was this remark:

"The Quran, 666 was revealed to Muhammed, 92 in the year 610."


Since the Quran was not published until long after the Revelation Jesus gave to the apostle John, it's curious Muhammed would know anything about it at all until after finding it himself in Revelation.

By whose letter numerical system did they go by?  Nothing works in relation to the Hebrew text except the Hebrew.  The Greek numerical system will not work.  Nor did Satan change any of the God breathed Scriptures that make up our Bible.

In the Hebrew, the number 666 is a formulation to the name of the Roman emperor, Nero(n), as previously addressed. 

The poster at that website should be taken with a grain of salt. However, it nonetheless shows some Muslim views that do exist.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on December 10, 2012, 11:19:00 PM
The poster at that website should be taken with a grain of salt. However, it nonetheless shows some Muslim views that do exist.



Without a doubt, there are endless views on it
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Nats on December 12, 2012, 12:20:51 PM
significance of...

chi xi stigma.

Scholars throughout the centuries have always rendered the number as "666," But is it what we‘re supposed to be looking at? There is another way to see it that, in my opinion, may bring more into focus.

It begs the question, 'What is the wisdom of understanding that the number of a man "666" brings so that we are not deceived by the 'beast’ mentioned in Revelations 13'?

Everything in Rev. chapter 13 leads up to this wisdom of understanding verse 18.

Father, through out the scriptures, uses numbers to make a point and to teach. The Hebrew and the Greek languages are much more expressive and pictorial then our English translation’s can give us so I think it’s important to use both and then draw conclusions knowing all of scripture must align. I’m simply presenting another way that’s saturated in the scriptures.

Example:
We understand the number two means ‘witness’
That nine means “fruit of the Spirit”
In scripture we know that 40 means ‘probation.’
We understand 18 means ‘bondage’
We understand the number seven means ‘completeness’ or ‘healing’
The number 5 means grace.

There are many “bible Mathematics” books in stores or on line to learn from and to edit on our own. This is not “bible code”

For example, Seven, in the Hebrew means “completeness” but a further study in the scripture shows it to mean “healing” as well and so on. 

I do not believe in “bible codes” but I know God uses numbers in the bible to teach a point.

I have yet to see anyone give an understand of counting this number chi xi stigma. with wisdom behind it that reveals the "man" in question from just the scriptures.

I think the scholars may have been wrong for centuries on what numbers we’re supposed to be gaining wisdom from. i.e. 6+60+600 = 666 -vs.- 6 + 14 + 22 = 42

  ??? To my point...

Revelation 13:18.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

His number is chi xi stigma

G5516 (Strongs Concordance)
chi xi stigma
khee xee stig'-ma
The 22nd, 14th and an obsolete letter (G4742 as a cross) of the Greek alphabet (intermediate between the 5th and 6th), used as numbers; denoting respectively 600, 60 and 6; 666 as a numeral: - six hundred threescore and six.

Why would an obsolete letter be used in this important context of wisdom for those who have understanding? Think about that. There is an underlying message to those who "have understanding"

600,60,6 is the Greek letter equivalent (sort of ) for chi xi stigma. But is 600,60,6 (“666”) what we’re supposed to be looking at?

There are notable scriptures that have 600, or 60, or 6 in them such as 1Ki 10:14 etc... but I don't see any foundation of understanding the identification of the 'man' by counting this number. It must mean something else for those who have understanding to gain the wisdom regarding ‘the beast’. Bear with me... :)

Since the obsolete letter, stigma, is between the fifth and sixth Greek letter, it would still make it the sixth letter. Here is what stigma means…

Quote
G4742
From a primary word stizo, (to “stick”, that is, prick); a mark incised or punched (for recognition of ownership), that is, (figuratively) scar of service: - mark.


Is this just coincidence? Of course not.

So we have a ”MARK” associated with the number of the beast but we are supposed to gain wisdom by counting the number of the beast and we cannot overlook that. If we do we've lost the understanding.

Can we gain any understanding with the Greek word ’count’?

G5585
psephizo
psay-fid'-zo
From G5586; to use pebbles in enumeration, that is, (genitive case) to compute: - count.

Use pebbles to enumerate the number??? So why are we using the Greek letter equivalent of chi xi stigma. to enumerate it to 666? Why?

This word comes from the prime of G5585 and gives us a little more info on the pebbles.

G5586
psephos
psay'-fos
From the same as G5584; a pebble (as worn smooth by handling), that is, (by implication of use as a counter or ballot) a verdict (of acquittal) or ticket (of admission); a vote: - stone, voice.

By this definition and the context of the scripture we can discard everything except the implication of counting and that the pebble is worn smooth by handling. Apparently the pebble didn’t start out smooth so it must have taken much time to wear a pebble (small stone) smooth by handling. This would be rightly dividing the Word as it is written in the Greek.

Here is Bullingers definition of G5585:
 
psephizo - to count or reckon with  psephos (G5586) (small pebbles worn round and smooth by water, ) To reckon, calculate, (just like Lat. Calcular) from calculus.

The implication is to count the number of the beast with pebbles worn smooth by water or by handling. Either way we need to go back in time to figure out the number of the anthropos (“a man”) which is…

Quote
G444
anthropos
anth'-ro-pos
From G435 and ōps (the countenance; from G3700); manfaced, that is, a human being: - certain, man.

This doesn’t necessarily mean a mortal man like most think.
Anthropos is also used of angels in the New Testament several times and a kin word in the Hebrew is also used of both man or angel - “ish”.


Why have scholars over the centuries added up the Greek letter equivalent for chi xi stigma ( 600 + 60 + 6 = 666 ) when we are told to count or reckon with  psephos (G5586) (small pebbles worn round and smooth by water. ) ?

Enumerate the....

22nd letter
14th letter
6th (Stigma)

...with pebbles worn smooth by water for understanding of the 'beast'

=

?

Enumerate the Greek letters as biblical “mathematic” numbers with the Hebrew letters and the numbers they correspond too and you will come to another interesting conclusion.


22nd letter
14th letter
6th an obsolete letter, stigma, (G4742 as a cross) of the Greek alphabet

All three letter corresponding numbers have meaning with bible numeric from scripture.

22 = Light
14 = Salvation or Deliverance
6 = Satans evil, sinful man, sin manifested, man kind, stigma - ‘mark’

6, in scripture has these meanings but I’m going to stick with the definition of stigma for now.

One way to look at it…

22 + 14 + 6 = 42

The 22nd letter in the Greek is a cross.
The 22nd  letter in the Hebrew is a cross.

In Ezekiel 9:4,  the ‘MARK’ to the forehead from the inkhorn denotes a cross, The 22 letter in the Hebrew alphabet.

We have a …
6 - ‘Mark’
+ 14 -Salvation or deliverance
+ 22 -Light (cross)
____________

= 42 - 2nd Advent ( with 2 witnesses/candlesticks/olive trees (Rev.11:3-4 ) And this gives us a time element of the last days.
 
We have a ‘type’
And we have an ‘anti-type’

Christ is:
the Light, (As God is the Father of lights)
our Salvation and Deliverer,
the seal (mark) in the forehead (cross) (Rev:7:3 - Rev.22:4)
Christ comes at The 2nd Advent….

Mat 1:17 
So all the generations from Abraham to David
Are fourteen generations;
and from David until the carrying away into Babylon
Are fourteen generations;
and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ
Are fourteen generations.

the 22nd letter is a 'cross.' Its the "mark" of God’s chosen ones. And Light, fourteen, is salvation or deliverance of Israel.

The three fourteens = 42 also

This is NOT a coincidence either.

42 is Advent in bible numeric.
The first advent was Christ to save because God so loved the world.

The second advent is to separate those who love God and keep God’s commandments and the testimony of Christ from those who do not and take the ‘mark of the beast’

To conclude, all these are of the True Light and Savior at the 2nd Advent, Jesus the Christ our King.

But we also have a False one to come first who will sit in the Holy place claiming to be God, showing that he is God. ( 2 Thess. 2:1-13 who is identified in verse 9 )

No mortal man could pull off claiming to be God, the Father of lights, in the last days leading up to the return of Christ. It must (Will) be a supernatural entity.

Identifying the false one…

2Co 11:13 
…For such are false apostles,
deceitful workers,
disguising themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 
And no marvel;
For Satan himself is disguised into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 
Therefore it is no great thing if his (Satans) ministers
also be disguised as the ministers of righteousness;
whose end shall be according to their works.

The ‘man of sin’ the ‘son of perdition’ is identified in 2 Thess.2:9 as Satan.
Verse 4 tells us exactly what he will claim to be….

 2Th 2:2 
…That ye be not soon shaken in mind,
or be troubled, neither by spirit,
nor by word, nor by letter as from us,
as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 
Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first,
and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,
or that is worshiped;
so that he (Satan) as God
sitteth in the temple of God,
showing himself that he is God.

So the anti-type is…

The false Light (anti-type)  - 22 - cross
Claiming to be God - 14  - Savior - Redeemer.
Beast with 2 horns like a Lamb - (King and  Savior)
Deceiving the whole world and working miracles in the sight of man.
If Satan is claiming to be God with the power of Christ
This then is the false advent (anti-type)  - 42
And the MARK of the beast (anti-type) - 6

Satan is not a mortal, he is an angel.

 Rev 9:11 
And they had a king over them,
which is the angel
of the bottomless pit,
whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon,
but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Also notice how our attention is drawn to the Greek as well as the Hebrew.  Satan goes by
many names in scripture and in Rev.20:1-3 he is connected to the bottomless pit and deceiver of the nations mentioned in Rev. 13. Satan isn’t coming manifested as a man, it’s going to be him in person, disguised as an angel of light, claiming to be God, the Father of lights, claiming to be King of the world and the world his kingdom, claiming the two powers (horn) of the Lamb, Christ, which I believe are King and Savior.

Theres more I noticed in this study and it's still a work (and edit) in progress - more to come. But read Rev. 13 now with all this in mind and see where else your knowledge of the scriptures takes you.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on December 14, 2012, 04:05:44 PM
chi xi stigma is a Greek numeral and has nothing to do with the Aramaic numeral Jesus gave in Rev.13:18 when dictating it to John.

All Biblical text involving numbers are from the Hebrew, not from the Greek.

Greek numerical letter system:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Greek+Numbered+letters+&qpvt=Greek+Numbered+letters+&FORM=IGRE

Hebrew numerical letter system:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Hebrew+numbered+letters&qpvt=Hebrew+numbered+letters&FORM=IGRE


Quasar
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Nats on April 08, 2013, 12:35:12 PM
Below is a cut-and-paste on a theory of how the original Greek symbols were incorrectly translated into 666:

Below (left) are photos of Greek symbols translated in the Bible as 666.  The gold symbol (bottom and right) is Arabic for "Allah" when turned and mirrored.  Additionally, crossed swords are a symbol for Islam.  So in 666 we may find symbols for both "Islam" and "Allah".

(http://www.beholdthebeast.com/16479040.jpg)

Unvalidated Source:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam__quran_and_666.htm

Me Again,

If there is an Islam connection, I still currently think their belief in the coming of the 12 Imam is a good candidate for the "false prophet" who may be the forerunner to the appearance of Satan and his angels. It could be part of God's strong delusion in the last days.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on April 08, 2013, 01:21:36 PM
Me Again,

If there is an Islam connection, I still currently think their belief in the coming of the 12 Imam is a good candidate for the "false prophet" who may be the forerunner to the appearance of Satan and his angels. It could be part of God's strong delusion in the last days.

I too have wondered that very thing.  :o
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: saved on April 08, 2013, 04:01:39 PM
I for one do not plan on being here when this all comes to past.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Nats on April 09, 2013, 12:03:37 PM
I too have wondered that very thing.  :o

I like a good second witness.  :)
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Nats on April 09, 2013, 12:27:32 PM
I for one do not plan on being here when this all comes to past.

Where do you plan to be, if I may ask?

I would rather be left behind giving testimony for Christ's name sake and trying to help pull our people out of the great deception that's coming, than be taken in the deception.

Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on April 09, 2013, 12:39:49 PM
Where do you plan to be, if I may ask?

I would rather be left behind giving testimony for Christ's name sake and trying to help pull our people out of the great deception that's coming, than be taken in the deception.

Matt. 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

IMO a global deception is coming that will surpass all past deceptions.

Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Nats on April 09, 2013, 12:51:33 PM
Matt. 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

IMO a global deception is coming that will surpass all past deceptions.

Absolutely. In the not too distant future, in my opinion.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on April 09, 2013, 06:50:01 PM
Absolutely. In the not too distant future, in my opinion.

Much agreed. I'm curious to see what happens to pension systems, government payouts and sovereign/elected governments. The bibles says, "Let not your heart be troubled, neither be afraid." Nonetheless, I'm wondering how it's all going to play out.  :(
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Nats on April 09, 2013, 07:57:15 PM
Jim Rogers came out this week talking about obama dipping into federal pension plans but had he went a little deeper he would know tucked in the 2009 'stimulus' is a proposal giving the Fed Govt. the power to take $4.00 out of every $100.00 (4%) from 401k, IRA and federal pensions from folks 55 years old and upwards. And in a 'national emergency' they can take up to, but not more than, another 8.2% for a total of 12.2%. I think we call them the baby boomers.

Most folks don't know that confiscation in this country is already a matter of law. Why do you think they want our guns and ammo so bad and to keep them from our vets coming home from battle.

Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on April 09, 2013, 08:04:25 PM
Jim Rogers came out this week talking about obama dipping into federal pension plans but had he went a little deeper he would know tucked in the 2009 'stimulus' is a proposal giving the Fed Govt. the power to take $4.00 out of every $100.00 (4%) from 401k, IRA and federal pensions from folks 55 years old and upwards. And in a 'national emergency' they can take up to, but not more than, another 8.2% for a total of 12.2%. I think we call them the baby boomers.

Most folks don't know that confiscation in this country is already a matter of law. Why do you think they want our guns and ammo so bad and to keep them from our vets coming home from battle.

Do you have a link to those statistics?
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Nats on April 10, 2013, 12:43:02 AM
Humph! I searched for it again but I can't find it. It was late 2009 when I seen it and the data and it was proposed by a southern california senator in the 2009 stimulis. It had nothing to do with the Ghilarducci proposal. Me thinks it's been scrubbed but I'll keep digging.

There was an old law that obama dusted off and changed some wording to the effect In a national emergency the govt could take pretty much anything they needed from your home and force federal workers to work whether they wanted to or not. That one I know I can find. He signed it at news years a couple of years ago

I can give you Jim no prob. A man I respect a lot.

http://bullmarketthinking.com/jim-rogers-i-suspect-theyll-take-the-pension-plans-next-i-for-one-am-worried-and-im-taking-preparations/
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on April 14, 2013, 12:19:03 AM
Humph! I searched for it again but I can't find it. It was late 2009 when I seen it and the data and it was proposed by a southern california senator in the 2009 stimulis. It had nothing to do with the Ghilarducci proposal. Me thinks it's been scrubbed but I'll keep digging.

There was an old law that obama dusted off and changed some wording to the effect In a national emergency the govt could take pretty much anything they needed from your home and force federal workers to work whether they wanted to or not. That one I know I can find. He signed it at news years a couple of years ago

I can give you Jim no prob. A man I respect a lot.

http://bullmarketthinking.com/jim-rogers-i-suspect-theyll-take-the-pension-plans-next-i-for-one-am-worried-and-im-taking-preparations/



I think the number you have been trying to find is 616, which I pointed out in my OP.  The name for Nero was Neron, in which the Jews knew him.  How and when the letter N was dropped, I don't know.  When the letter N is dropped from his name, it is changed from 666 by the Jewish alpha-numerical system to 616.  Since the Hebrew letter N carries a value of 50.

As can be seen, however, it still stands for the same man.


Quasar
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on July 02, 2013, 10:54:40 AM
Is Number 666 Nero ?

Queen of the South

In the passage were Jesus said that the sign of Jonah would be the only sign given to the generation of his day, Jesus followed up with another sign. This sign involved the Queen of the South, also known as the Queen of Sheba.

This Queen had come to hear Solomon’s wisdom and as part of that entire visit appears to have helped institute delivery of Gold from Ophir to Solomon. 6661 2 talents of Gold were delivered each year to Solomon through his fleet of sailing ships.

By bringing in the Queen of Sheba’s journey to visit Solomon" verse=" Jesus is also bringing in the idea of a long journey to the capital city as a prophecy regarding the time when this fulfills.

By the time this does fulfill the primary city in the world is not Jerusalem, as it was in Solomon’s day, but Rome, far across the sea from Jerusalem. Instead of a prophecy regarding a journey to Jerusalem, this is a prophecy regarding a journey to Rome, replacement for Jerusalem throughout most of the age.

Working the Math Behind 666 Years

King Nebuchadnezzar made Jehoiakim his vassal starting at 10391/1/14 AA This was done because of the nation’s disobedience to God and his covenant with them. 666 years later, or 11057/1/14 AA, this application of 666 years is up. This hits the summer of 68 AD, the year emperor Nero died.

Titus who would later become Emperor himself had to pull out of Palestine in order to return to Rome to deal with the political situation and the lack of a ruler. Like the Queen of Sheba he was going on a long journey to another Jerusalem.

When Titus returned to rejoin the attack on Jerusalem two years later he would cause most of the surviving residents of the area to be sold into the Roman slave markets, the Gold, if you will, would be taken to Rome too.

Nero’s death, 666 years after Nebuchadnezzar made Jerusalem a vassal state also coincides with an ancient belief about the meaning of the number 666 given in Revelation. We look at that now.

Nero and 666

We have already shown the chronological importance of Emperor Nero’s death in 68 AD. This death fell 666 years after Nebuchadnezzar made Jerusalem a vassal state. Nero, though, has long been known to also represent the "mark of the beast" as found in Revelation. This long standing interpretation involves the numeric value of his name.

Before the introduction of specific digits for writing numbers, most languages including Greek and Hebrew used numeric values assigned to the standard letters in their various alphabets. Because of this assignment every word written in Hebrew had an equivalent numeric value. The numeric value for Nero is relevant to our story here because the value for the letters in his name totals 666, the same as the number of years from Nebuchadnezzar’s rule over Jerusalem.


For the complete article:  http://bibletime.com/ministry/jerufalls



Quasar
__________________
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Zaph on July 02, 2013, 06:35:01 PM
For another way to look at the number of the beast you might find this interesting....

Unlocking 666 (http://www.666truth.org/history/666-and-the-mark.aspx)
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on July 03, 2013, 11:33:07 AM
Without a doubt, windier than me!  But also very well studied re the Scriptures as well as history.

From what I gather out of it all is the fact that he sees the papacy/Pope as the number of the beast.  I do not see it that way because the beast/Antichrist was dead at the time Jesus gave His Revelation vision to John, in Rev.17:8 and 11.  In addition the numerology is a certainty to come from the Hebrew alpha-Numerical alphabet.  Not from anywhere else.

IMO, the RCC/papacy/Pope, is the mother of all prostitutes of Rev.17:5-16, the woman who sits on many waters. [All over the world/everywhere, as the Catholic church presently exists].  The beast/Antichrist and the ten horns [nations allied to him] will destroy.

I do not see the papacy as the number of the beast, but there are many others who do.


Quasar
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Zaph on July 03, 2013, 06:22:04 PM
Without a doubt, windier than me! 

Quasar, my friend, you have given me a good chuckle. :)   While we may disagree I respect you for at least looking at other possibilities.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on July 04, 2013, 02:46:25 PM
IMO the mark of the beast has something to do with the manipulation of our DNA and it will be evidenced via a mark in our right hand or our forehead.

Yeaaaaa I know it sounds "out there"!!!! Guess we'll have to wait and see!!!  :o
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on July 11, 2013, 12:11:49 AM
IMO the mark of the beast has something to do with the manipulation of our DNA and it will be evidenced via a mark in our right hand or our forehead.

Yeaaaaa I know it sounds "out there"!!!! Guess we'll have to wait and see!!!  :o



Interesting comment!  Would you mind adding a little more meat to that remark.  The technology for tracking people wherever they go has already been developed, for example.


Quasar
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on July 11, 2013, 08:36:22 AM


Interesting comment!  Would you mind adding a little more meat to that remark.  The technology for tracking people wherever they go has already been developed, for example.


Quasar

I can't provide any reading materials or videos, but it's just what I've always believed i.e. anyone who takes it will get their DNA changed.

I heard one guy preaching who said that the DNA fits in with Revelation 9:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev%209:6&version=AKJV) where men seek death, but cannot find it i.e. the beast promises immortality to those who take the mark.

I'm not 100% certain of anything, except for a belief that the mark will have something to do with our DNA because our DNA forever identifies who we are. That would explain why those who receive the mark cannot repent and are eternally doomed. Repentance is not a possibility for those who take the mark. Don't take the mark!
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on July 12, 2013, 12:00:41 AM
I can't provide any reading materials or videos, but it's just what I've always believed i.e. anyone who takes it will get their DNA changed.

I heard one guy preaching who said that the DNA fits in with Revelation 9:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev%209:6&version=AKJV) where men seek death, but cannot find it i.e. the beast promises immortality to those who take the mark.

I'm not 100% certain of anything, except for a belief that the mark will have something to do with our DNA because our DNA forever identifies who we are. That would explain why those who receive the mark cannot repent and are eternally doomed. Repentance is not a possibility for those who take the mark. Don't take the mark!


You may be onto something, but I do not know of anywhere in the Bible where the Antichrist promises immortality.  Can you help me out with that?


Quasar
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on July 12, 2013, 06:02:56 PM
You may be onto something, but I do not know of anywhere in the Bible where the Antichrist promises immortality.  Can you help me out with that?

That's an angle that I heard a fringe preacher mention and it deals with the Nephellim, for whom there is no hope of salvation nor repentance -- just as there is no hope of salvation or repentance for fallen angels. Their demise is certain. Similarly, the preacher postulated that if human DNA is altered or mixed with Nephellim DNA or DNA from fallen angels, then those humans with that mark [of the beast] have sealed their own death warrant by accepting it. He theorized that the acceptance of the mark would make people almost indestructible, so it would seem extremely foolish to most of the world to not accept it. They would become almost indestructible, similar to the fallen angels and, hence, "men shall seek death and not find it" in Rev. 9:6.

I do not accept these theories with certitude (God knows for sure), but I believe that the mark of the beast has something to do with our DNA.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on July 15, 2013, 09:17:57 AM
That's an angle that I heard a fringe preacher mention and it deals with the Nephellim, for whom there is no hope of salvation nor repentance -- just as there is no hope of salvation or repentance for fallen angels. Their demise is certain. Similarly, the preacher postulated that if human DNA is altered or mixed with Nephellim DNA or DNA from fallen angels, then those humans with that mark [of the beast] have sealed their own death warrant by accepting it. He theorized that the acceptance of the mark would make people almost indestructible, so it would seem extremely foolish to most of the world to not accept it. They would become almost indestructible, similar to the fallen angels and, hence, "men shall seek death and not find it" in Rev. 9:6.

I do not accept these theories with certitude (God knows for sure), but I believe that the mark of the beast has something to do with our DNA.



Interesting angle, because the meddling with the DNA is exactly what happened when the sons of God [fallen angels] took human women as wives and had children by them.  Producing the Nephilim, giants up to twice the size or more of the average human being.  When they died, their spirits were earthbound and the demons we read about in the Bible.  IMO, the sons of God were part of the one third of all the angels loyal to Satan, whose plan it was to disrupt God's plan for our Savior, Jesus Christ to come through a human source.  As  a case and point, that is what is being meddled with as I write, with the cloning that is going on and being experimented with.

The spirits of both the sons of God/fallen angels, as are all the Godless and wicked, doomed to eternal torment [Gehenna], the lake of fire, according to Isa.66:24; Mt.25:46 and Mk.9:48.

The person who is described to be the Antichrist, is the beast out of the sea, whom Satan will give his throne, power and great authority to, according to Rev.13:1-2.  When Jesus gave John the vision of Revelation, this guy was already dead [#666], according to Rev.17:8 and 11.  The beast who once was, now is not and will come up out of the Abyss.  He was also one of the first four kings [of the fourth world power - Rome], and when he returns to power, and triggers the 70th Week/Seven of Dan.9:27, seven year tribulation, he will return as the eighth king, who was part of the original seven world powers. [From the ancient Roman empire to the coming, restored Roman 'empire' Consisting of the nations who were previously a part of the old Roman empire].  Described in Dan.3:40-43.

Just how the DNA factor might enter into that is something I don't see as yet, but readily admit, it is a possibility.


Quasar 
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on July 18, 2013, 09:34:04 AM
Interesting angle, because the meddling with the DNA is exactly what happened when the sons of God [fallen angels] took human women as wives and had children by them.  Producing the Nephilim, giants up to twice the size or more of the average human being.  When they died, their spirits were earthbound and the demons we read about in the Bible.  IMO, the sons of God were part of the one third of all the angels loyal to Satan, whose plan it was to disrupt God's plan for our Savior, Jesus Christ to come through a human source. 

Yep, I too believe that.

As  a case and point, that is what is being meddled with as I write, with the cloning that is going on and being experimented with.

It's interesting that we now have the ability to mix multiple DNAs with multiple species, both plant and human. It's the stuff of weird science!  :o

The spirits of both the sons of God/fallen angels, as are all the Godless and wicked, doomed to eternal torment [Gehenna], the lake of fire, according to Isa.66:24; Mt.25:46 and Mk.9:48.

Yep, there is absolutely no hope for Satan and his ilk, which is probably why they hate us so much e.g. because we can repent (but only while we're alive in our mortal bodies), but the can't ever repent and be saved!

The person who is described to be the Antichrist, is the beast out of the sea, whom Satan will give his throne, power and great authority to, according to Rev.13:1-2.  When Jesus gave John the vision of Revelation, this guy was already dead [#666], according to Rev.17:8 and 11.  The beast who once was, now is not and will come up out of the Abyss.  He was also one of the first four kings [of the fourth world power - Rome], and when he returns to power, and triggers the 70th Week/Seven of Dan.9:27, seven year tribulation, he will return as the eighth king, who was part of the original seven world powers. [From the ancient Roman empire to the coming, restored Roman 'empire' Consisting of the nations who were previously a part of the old Roman empire].  Described in Dan.3:40-43.

Just how the DNA factor might enter into that is something I don't see as yet, but readily admit, it is a possibility.

Just imagine if Nephellim DNA could be inserted into your DNA -- you would become like a god -- your wounds would be healed almost instantly -- heart disease, poor vision, cancer and all other maladies would be a thing of the past, but only IF you accept the Nephellim DNA to be inserted into your DNA through a portal in your right hand (or in your forehead, if you have no right hand). People who receive this mark would seemingly be immune from all these maladies. Wouldn't it seem foolish to most of the people to NOT accept the DNA mark?  :o

Again, I don't say this with certitude, but am simply parroting what I've heard -- and it sounds plausible.  :o

I guess we'll just have to wait and see!  :D
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Quasar on July 25, 2013, 12:21:15 AM
Quote from: me again
Just imagine if Nephellim DNA could be inserted into your DNA -- you would become like a god -- your wounds would be healed almost instantly -- heart disease, poor vision, cancer and all other maladies would be a thing of the past, but only IF you accept the Nephellim DNA to be inserted into your DNA through a portal in your right hand (or in your forehead, if you have no right hand). People who receive this mark would seemingly be immune from all these maladies. Wouldn't it seem foolish to most of the people to NOT accept the DNA mark? 

Again, I don't say this with certitude, but am simply parroting what I've heard -- and it sounds plausible. 

I guess we'll just have to wait and see!



You might be interestedin a review of the following post that describes who and what the Nephilim were:

http://theologyreview.com/index.php/topic,7197.0.html

When they died, their spirit/souls were earthbound because of their hybrid nature of being part son of God/angel and part human female.  They were and still are the demons Jesus drove out of people in the NT, such as in Mt.8:28-32, where the pigs died, but the demons did not die, and won't until they are thrown into the lake of fire at the GWT judgment.

Frankly, I do not believe anyone will ever develop the technology for anyone to live forever.  Including clones of any kind, because life of all kinds is perishable and mortal.


Quasar

 
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: John Oscar on August 25, 2013, 07:58:56 PM
Here is a question to stir up the mix-

If human cloning becomes a reality (if it hasn't already), would those people have a soul/spirit, or would they just be "meat" for demons to inhabit?
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Zaph on August 25, 2013, 08:40:23 PM
I'm usually don't respond to hypothetical questions but my question in turn would be. If a demon could inhabit these people why couldn't the Spirit of God? God is the author of all life. Humans may twist and pervert things but all life comes from God. Which is why I doubt we'll ever see a true human clone.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: John Oscar on August 25, 2013, 09:49:33 PM
It is a hypothetical.  I've been thinking about this some, but have not come to any conclusion yet as really we can't come to one with any certainty.

The flood happened when the Sons of God interbred with the daughters of men.  There are some that believe the human DNA was so corrupted that God decided to wipe all of humanity out and start over with the only uncorrupted family, Noah's.

Of course, that's only a theory, and not really supported by scripture.  I have a friend that wrote a whole fiction series about it.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Zaph on August 26, 2013, 09:01:58 PM
Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2  That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.


Yeah... conspiracy theories abound when it comes to these texts. However, I don't think we need to read into it anymore than what it says. I believe that the sons of God were those still loyal to God and the sons of men were simply unbelievers probably descendants of Cain.

Deu 29:29  The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on August 27, 2013, 09:12:31 AM
Here is a question to stir up the mix-

If human cloning becomes a reality (if it hasn't already), would those people have a soul/spirit, or would they just be "meat" for demons to inhabit?

LOL OMG  ;D

Oh boy... tough question... My inclination is to say yes, they would be eligible for salvation if they had a human soul, but would they have a human soul?
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Stan on August 27, 2013, 09:30:52 AM
The key here is 666 is NOT a number stamped on forehead etc etc, but it is the number of a MAN.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on August 27, 2013, 09:50:52 AM
LOL OMG  ;D

Oh boy... tough question... My inclination is to say yes, they would be eligible for salvation if they had a human soul, but would they have a human soul?
I change my mind. God man man in His image -- not in the image of a beast.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Stan on August 27, 2013, 09:53:15 AM
What is a soul?

>>>>And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

(breath and spirit---- same word)

We are a soul, we do not 'have' one...
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: John Oscar on August 27, 2013, 06:32:27 PM
The integration of spirit (the part of us that is in God's image) and flesh is what makes the soul.

"It is the breath of the Almighty that gives man understanding."

A body without a soul would just be a slightly more able animal.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on August 28, 2013, 10:39:54 AM
What is a soul?

>>>>And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

(breath and spirit---- same word)

We are a soul, we do not 'have' one...

Stan, I acknowledge that teaching, but disagree with the conclusion that is drawn from it e.g. that the soul ceases to exist at the death of the mortal body. At death, the physical brain deteriorates, but the soul lives forever, either in heaven with God or in hell without God. The soul is intertwined with the spirit.

At your mortal death, you will fully appreciate this reality. LOL  :)
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Zaph on August 28, 2013, 08:33:09 PM
Eze 18:4  Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Eze 18:20  The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

It appears to me that you believe the devil when he whispered the following lie to Eve.

Gen_3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on August 29, 2013, 12:39:18 PM
It appears to me that you believe the devil when he whispered the following lie to Eve.

Gen_3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Jesus presented the concept of the soul continuing in death in the story of Lazarus and the rich man. If the concept were of Satanic origin, then Jesus would not have presented it.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Stan on August 29, 2013, 07:19:03 PM
**ahem***

:)

Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on August 30, 2013, 08:50:12 AM
**ahem***

:)

I was actually thinking about this and other issues last night. There are people who are sincerely wrong, yet despite these differences, we are required to love one another. We are not required to love false doctrines, but we are asked by Jesus to love those who have false doctrines. LOL  ;D
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: John Oscar on August 30, 2013, 10:55:09 AM
Jesus presented the concept of the soul continuing in death in the story of Lazarus and the rich man. If the concept were of Satanic origin, then Jesus would not have presented it.

"Let everything be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses" has been the bedrock for proper exegesis of scripture.  You can't take one parable and make a doctrine out of it without other supporting scripture.
Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: Stan on August 30, 2013, 10:56:44 AM
True...

Title: Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
Post by: me again on August 30, 2013, 02:00:24 PM
"Let everything be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses" has been the bedrock for proper exegesis of scripture.  You can't take one parable and make a doctrine out of it without other supporting scripture.

Good point. Here are a few witnesses:

.
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.
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.