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SCHOOL of THEOLOGY => Religion & Theology => Topic started by: rstrats on November 15, 2012, 12:31:18 PM

Title: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on November 15, 2012, 12:31:18 PM


Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently suggest that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely doesn't/can't include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on November 15, 2012, 10:38:14 PM
On what day was Jesus crucified and buried on?

The Bible does not explicitly state on which day of the week Jesus was crucified. The two most widely held views are Friday and Wednesday. Some, however, using a synthesis of both the Friday and Wednesday arguments, argue for Thursday as the day.

Jesus said in Matthew 12:40, “For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” Those who argue for a Friday crucifixion say that there is still a valid way in which He could have been considered in the grave for three days. In the Jewish mind of the first century, a part of day was considered as a full day. Since Jesus was in the grave for part of Friday, all of Saturday, and part of Sunday—He could be considered to have been in the grave for three days. One of the principal arguments for Friday is found in Mark 15:42, which notes that Jesus was crucified “the day before the Sabbath.” If that was the weekly Sabbath, i.e. Saturday, then that fact leads to a Friday crucifixion. Another argument for Friday says that verses such as Matthew 16:21 and Luke 9:22 teach that Jesus would rise on the third day; therefore, He would not need to be in the grave a full three days and nights. But while some translations use “on the third day” for these verses, not all do, and not everyone agrees that “on the third day” is the best way to translate these verses. Furthermore, Mark 8:31 says that Jesus will be raised “after” three days.

The Thursday argument expands on the Friday view and argues mainly that there are too many events (some count as many as twenty) happening between Christ's burial and Sunday morning to occur from Friday evening to Sunday morning. Proponents of the Thursday view point out that this is especially a problem when the only full day between Friday and Sunday was Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath. An extra day or two eliminates that problem. The Thursday advocates could reason thus: suppose you haven't seen a friend since Monday evening. The next time you see him it is Thursday morning and you say, “I haven’t seen you in three days” even though it had technically only been 60 hours (2.5 days). If Jesus was crucified on Thursday, this example shows how it could be considered three days.

The Wednesday opinion states that there were two Sabbaths that week. After the first one (the one that occurred on the evening of the crucifixion [Mark 15:42; Luke 23:52-54]), the women purchased spices—note that they made their purchase after the Sabbath (Mark 16:1). The Wednesday view holds that this “Sabbath” was the Passover (see Leviticus 16:29-31, 23:24-32, 39, where high holy days that are not necessarily the seventh day of the week are referred to as the Sabbath). The second Sabbath that week was the normal weekly Sabbath. Note that in Luke 23:56, the women who had purchased spices after the first Sabbath returned and prepared the spices, then “rested on the Sabbath” (Luke 23:56). The argument states that they could not purchase the spices after the Sabbath, yet prepare those spices before the Sabbath—unless there were two Sabbaths. With the two-Sabbath view, if Christ was crucified on Thursday, then the high holy Sabbath (the Passover) would have begun Thursday at sundown and ended at Friday sundown—at the beginning of the weekly Sabbath or Saturday. Purchasing the spices after the first Sabbath (Passover) would have meant they purchased them on Saturday and were breaking the Sabbath.

Therefore, according to the Wednesday viewpoint, the only explanation that does not violate the biblical account of the women and the spices and holds to a literal understanding of Matthew 12:40, is that Christ was crucified on Wednesday. The Sabbath that was a high holy day (Passover) occurred on Thursday, the women purchased spices (after that) on Friday and returned and prepared the spices on the same day, they rested on Saturday which was the weekly Sabbath, then brought the spices to the tomb early Sunday. Jesus was buried near sundown on Wednesday, which began Thursday in the Jewish calendar. Using a Jewish calendar, you have Thursday night (night one), Thursday day (day one), Friday night (night two), Friday day (day two), Saturday night (night three), Saturday day (day three). We do not know exactly when He rose, but we do know that it was before sunrise on Sunday (John 20:1, Mary Magdalene came “while it was still dark”), so He could have risen as early as just after sunset Saturday evening, which began the first day of the week to the Jews.

A possible problem with the Wednesday view is that the disciples who walked with Jesus on the road to Emmaus did so on “the same day” of His resurrection (Luke 24:13). The disciples, who do not recognize Jesus, tell Him of Jesus' crucifixion (24:21) and say that “today is the third day since these things happened” (24:22). Wednesday to Sunday is four days. A possible explanation is that they may have been counting since Wednesday evening at Christ's burial, which begins the Jewish Thursday, and Thursday to Sunday could be counted as three days.

Edit by Quasar:  Except for the fact He was buried before sunset, preceding Preparation day, on the day He was crucified. Theoretically on Wednesday, in this case, and therefore He would have risen sometime on Saturday and observed for the first time on the first day of the week].

In the grand scheme of things, it is not all that important to know what day of the week Christ was crucified. If it were very important, then God's Word would have clearly communicated the day and timeframe. What is important is that He did die and that He physically, bodily rose from the dead. What is equally important is the reason He died—to take the punishment that all sinners deserve. John 3:16 and 3:36 both proclaim that putting your trust in Him results in eternal life! This is equally true whether He was crucified on a Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday.

Recommended Resource: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus by Gary Habermas.

From:   http://www.gotquestions.org/three-days.html

The following is more input on the subject from another source:

 http://www.sabbath.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/HWA/k/463/subj/sabbath/Resurrection-Not-Sunday.htm


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on November 16, 2012, 08:58:55 AM
Quasar,

Thanks for the comments.

Do you have any information with regard to the request for the documentation asked for in the OP?
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on November 16, 2012, 12:15:29 PM
You're welcome rstrats.


Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: saved on November 16, 2012, 02:29:23 PM
Actually it is very important to have the right day that Christ died as well as the right day He raised so as to silence the skeptics. Here is an article that gives the sequences. Actually it is in two parts.
http://www.gerald285.com/index.php?p=1_29_Crucifixion-Week-1

http://www.gerald285.com/index.php?p=1_30_Crucifixion-Week-2
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on November 20, 2012, 03:22:38 PM
The links you have given, Saved, reveals Juesus died on a Wednesday as I have pointed out on this thread as well as this one:

http://theologyreview.com/index.php/topic,7394.0.html

The confusion over this issue is because most people do not realize there was two Sabbaths the week Jesus died and was buried.  The day of preparation mentioned in Mk.15:42 reveals Jesus burial on preparation day, the day before the Passover Sabbath, which was on a Thursday.

There is no such thing as "preparation day" for the regular weekly Saturday Sabbaths.  That is why Friday was not the day Jesus was buried and why He was in the tomb for three days and three nights.


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Stan on November 25, 2012, 05:02:21 PM
I really wish someone could say in less than 100 words why it is important that he died on which day.

If it can not be said in 100 words or less, it is more than likely not that important.

Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on November 25, 2012, 10:43:37 PM
Hi Stan,

IMO, the reason for the controversial issue is because of Jesus remark in Mt.12:40:  "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a hugh fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

For eons the Church has believed Jesus died and was buried on Friday, because the day of preparation referred to in Mt.27:62, LK.19:54 and Jn.19:42 was thought to be Friday, due to Saturday always being the weekly Sabbath. 

But If Jesus died and was buried on Friday, there is no way He could have possibly spent three days and three nights in the tomb, and be resurrected on the first day of the week, Sunday.

But there is never a preparation day for the weekly Sabbath, but rather, in this case, it was for the Passover, that took place on Thursday in that particular week, as recorded in Lk.21:7-8.

Therefore, the issue is resolved, when it is understood there was two Sabbaths that week, and the day of Preparation was the Wednesday Jesus died and was buried preceded the Passover Sabbath on Thursday.  Which verifies Jesus three days and three nights in the heart f the earth.


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on December 14, 2012, 07:37:26 AM
Quasar,

re:  "... Juesus died on a Wednesday..."

How do you reconcile a 4th day crucifixion with Luke 24:21 which indicates that it couldn't have occurred any sooner than the 5th day of the week?
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on December 14, 2012, 04:08:35 PM
Quasar,

re:  "... Juesus died on a Wednesday..."

How do you reconcile a 4th day crucifixion with Luke 24:21 which indicates that it couldn't have occurred any sooner than the 5th day of the week?



Our Bible gives us the answer, as clear as crystal:

"Therefore, the issue is resolved, when it is understood there was two Sabbaths that week, and the day of Preparation was the Wednesday Jesus died and was buried preceded the Passover Sabbath on Thursday.  Which verifies Jesus three days and three nights in the heart f the earth."


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on December 14, 2012, 05:07:11 PM
Quasar,

re:  "...the issue is resolved, when it is understood there was two Sabbaths that week..."

That doesn't answer the question:  "How do you reconcile a 4th day crucifixion with Luke 24:21 which indicates that it couldn't have occurred any sooner than the 5th day of the week?"
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on December 14, 2012, 11:19:34 PM
Quasar,

re:  "...the issue is resolved, when it is understood there was two Sabbaths that week..."

That doesn't answer the question:  "How do you reconcile a 4th day crucifixion with Luke 24:21 which indicates that it couldn't have occurred any sooner than the 5th day of the week?"



Why does Lk.24:21 conflict with anything I have written that Jesus was crucified on Preparation day, the day before Passover, the Jewish Sabbath on Thursday?  Followed by Friday and the segfventh day Sabbath on Saturday!

Tell me why you don't think it resolves the issue.  In the meanwhile, review the following:

 http://www.sabbath.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/HWA/k/463/subj/sabbath/Resurrection-Not-Sunday.htm


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on December 15, 2012, 08:46:14 AM
Quasar,

re:  "Tell me why you don't think it resolves the issue."

It was the first day of the week, and Cleopas and another were traveling to Emmaus.  While they were going, they talked about the things that had recently transpired. (Luke 24:13-14)

The Messiah - in disguise - met up with them and asked what they were talking about. Cleopas answered: "...have you not known the things which happened there [in Jerusalem] in these days?" (Luke 24:15-18)

Cleopas was then asked:  "What things?"  (verse 19)  To which he replied:  "The things concerning Jesus of Nazareth...and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to be condemed to death, and crucified Him...Indeed besides all this, today is the third day since these things happened." (verses 19-21) 

So if the first day of the week was" the third day since these things happened" and since the last thing mentioned was the crucifixion, then the seventh day of the week would have been the second day since it happened.  This would make the sixth day of the week the first day SINCE it happened, which would make the fifth day of the week the day that the crucifixion occurred and not the fourth day.

Now I imagine you'll counter by saying that "these things" didn't end with the crucifixion, but continued on through "the setting of the seal and the watch over the tomb the following day".  But that would only be an assumption in order to make the event fit with your 4th day crucifixion idea. 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on December 15, 2012, 11:10:38 AM
Your point is well taken, but it is important to remember that nowhere in the Bible does it state Jesus rose on the first day of the week.  But rather, it was discovered that He had risen on the first day of the week.  See the following excerpt I keep referring you to you seem to be side stepping from:

http://www.sabbath.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/HWA/k/463/subj/sabbath/Resurrection-Not-Sunday.htm


>>>What Sabbath Followed the Crucifixion?

Now we come to an objection some may raise, yet the very point which proves this truth. Perhaps you have noticed that the Scriptures say the day after the crucifixion was a Sabbath. Hence, for centuries, people have blindly assumed the crucifixion was on Friday.

Now we have shown by all four Gospels that the crucifixion day was called "the preparation." The preparation day for the Sabbath. But for what Sabbath?

John's Gospel gives the definite answer: "It was the preparation of the Passover."

"For that sabbath day was an high day" (John 19:14, 31).

Just what is a "high day"? Ask any Jew! He will tell you it is one of the annual holy days, or feast days. The Israelites observed seven of these every year—every one called a Sabbath! Annual Sabbaths fall on certain annual calendar dates, and on different days of the week in different years, just like the Roman holidays now observed. These Sabbaths might fall on Monday, on Thursday, or on Sunday.

If you will notice the following texts, you will see these annual holy days were all called Sabbath days: Leviticus 16:31; 23:24, 26-32, 39.

Notice Matthew 26:2: "Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified." And if you will follow through this chapter you will see that Jesus was crucified on the Passover!

And what was the Passover? In the twelfth chapter of Exodus you will find the story of the original Passover. The children of Israel killed the lambs, and struck the blood over the doorposts and on the side posts of their houses, and wherever the blood had thus been applied the death angel passed over that house, sparing it from death. Following the Passover was a holy convocation or annual Sabbath.

Observe the dates: "And in the fourteenth day of the first month is THE PASSOVER of the Lord. And in the fifteenth day of this month is the FEAST" (Numbers 28:16-17).

The Passover lamb, killed every year on the 14th of the first month called "Abib," was a type of Christ, the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. Christ is our Passover, sacrificed for us (I Corinthians 5:7).

Jesus was slain on the very same day the Passover had been slain every year. He was crucified on the 14th of Abib, the first Hebrew month of the year. And this day, the Passover, was the day before—and the preparation for—the Feast day, or annual high day Sabbath, which occurred on the 15th of Abib. This Sabbath might occur on any day of the week. Frequently it occurs, and is observed even today, on Thursday. For instance, this "high-day" Sabbath came on Thursday in 1972, 1975 and 1979, and will occur on Thursday in 1982, 1986 and 1989.

And the Hebrew calendar shows that in the year Jesus was crucified, the 14th of Abib, Passover day, the day Jesus was crucified, was Wednesday. And the annual Sabbath was Thursday. This was the Sabbath that drew on as Joseph of Arimathea hastened to bury the body of Jesus late that Wednesday afternoon. There were two separate Sabbaths that week!
 
Now which day of the week was the resurrection day?

The first investigators, Mary Magdalene and her companions, came to the sepulcher on the first day of the week (Sunday) very early, while it was yet dark, as the sun was beginning to rise, at dawn (Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1).

Now here are the texts most people have supposed stated the resurrection was at sunrise Sunday morning. But they do not say that!

When the women arrived, the tomb was already open! At that time Sunday morning while it was yet dark, Jesus was not there! Notice how the angel says, "He is not here, but is risen" (see Mark 16:6; Luke 24:6; Matthew 28:5-6).

Jesus was already risen at sunset Sunday morning! Of course He was. He rose from the grave in the late afternoon, near sunset!

And since we know Christ was buried late Wednesday afternoon, and that the resurrection took place at the same time of day three days later, we now know the resurrection of Christ occurred late Saturday afternoon.

The Sabbath day ended at sunset. It was late on that day, before the beginning of the first day of the week. It was not, then, a Sunday resurrection at all. It was a Sabbath resurrection!<<<


So the facts point to Jesus buriel on a Wednesday [Preparation day] at sunset:  To Thursday [Passover Sabbath] at sunset:  Day one.

Thusday [Passover Sabbath] at sunset to Friday at sunset: Day two.

Friday at Sunset to Saturday [Sabbath every week] at sunset: Day three.  72 hours in the tomb fulfilling Mt.12:40.

 There is no way posible for Jesus to have been buried in His tomb if it had been on a Friday at sunset.


Quasar 

 


Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on December 15, 2012, 11:12:56 AM
Your point is well taken, but it is important to remember that nowhere in the Bible does it state Jesus rose on the first day of the week.  But rather, it was discovered that He had risen on the first day of the week.  See the following excerpt I keep referring you to you seem to be side stepping from:

http://www.sabbath.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/HWA/k/463/subj/sabbath/Resurrection-Not-Sunday.htm


>>>What Sabbath Followed the Crucifixion?

Now we come to an objection some may raise, yet the very point which proves this truth. Perhaps you have noticed that the Scriptures say the day after the crucifixion was a Sabbath. Hence, for centuries, people have blindly assumed the crucifixion was on Friday.

Now we have shown by all four Gospels that the crucifixion day was called "the preparation." The preparation day for the Sabbath. But for what Sabbath?

John's Gospel gives the definite answer: "It was the preparation of the Passover."

"For that sabbath day was an high day" (John 19:14, 31).

Just what is a "high day"? Ask any Jew! He will tell you it is one of the annual holy days, or feast days. The Israelites observed seven of these every year—every one called a Sabbath! Annual Sabbaths fall on certain annual calendar dates, and on different days of the week in different years, just like the Roman holidays now observed. These Sabbaths might fall on Monday, on Thursday, or on Sunday.

If you will notice the following texts, you will see these annual holy days were all called Sabbath days: Leviticus 16:31; 23:24, 26-32, 39.

Notice Matthew 26:2: "Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified." And if you will follow through this chapter you will see that Jesus was crucified on the Passover!

And what was the Passover? In the twelfth chapter of Exodus you will find the story of the original Passover. The children of Israel killed the lambs, and struck the blood over the doorposts and on the side posts of their houses, and wherever the blood had thus been applied the death angel passed over that house, sparing it from death. Following the Passover was a holy convocation or annual Sabbath.

Observe the dates: "And in the fourteenth day of the first month is THE PASSOVER of the Lord. And in the fifteenth day of this month is the FEAST" (Numbers 28:16-17).

The Passover lamb, killed every year on the 14th of the first month called "Abib," was a type of Christ, the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. Christ is our Passover, sacrificed for us (I Corinthians 5:7).

Jesus was slain on the very same day the Passover had been slain every year. He was crucified on the 14th of Abib, the first Hebrew month of the year. And this day, the Passover, was the day before—and the preparation for—the Feast day, or annual high day Sabbath, which occurred on the 15th of Abib. This Sabbath might occur on any day of the week. Frequently it occurs, and is observed even today, on Thursday. For instance, this "high-day" Sabbath came on Thursday in 1972, 1975 and 1979, and will occur on Thursday in 1982, 1986 and 1989.

And the Hebrew calendar shows that in the year Jesus was crucified, the 14th of Abib, Passover day, the day Jesus was crucified, was Wednesday. And the annual Sabbath was Thursday. This was the Sabbath that drew on as Joseph of Arimathea hastened to bury the body of Jesus late that Wednesday afternoon. There were two separate Sabbaths that week!
 
Now which day of the week was the resurrection day?

The first investigators, Mary Magdalene and her companions, came to the sepulcher on the first day of the week (Sunday) very early, while it was yet dark, as the sun was beginning to rise, at dawn (Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1).

Now here are the texts most people have supposed stated the resurrection was at sunrise Sunday morning. But they do not say that!

When the women arrived, the tomb was already open! At that time Sunday morning while it was yet dark, Jesus was not there! Notice how the angel says, "He is not here, but is risen" (see Mark 16:6; Luke 24:6; Matthew 28:5-6).

Jesus was already risen at sunset Sunday morning! Of course He was. He rose from the grave in the late afternoon, near sunset!

And since we know Christ was buried late Wednesday afternoon, and that the resurrection took place at the same time of day three days later, we now know the resurrection of Christ occurred late Saturday afternoon.

The Sabbath day ended at sunset. It was late on that day, before the beginning of the first day of the week. It was not, then, a Sunday resurrection at all. It was a Sabbath resurrection!<<<


So the facts point to Jesus buriel on a Wednesday [Preparation day] at sunset:  To Thursday [Passover Sabbath] at sunset:  Day one.

Thusday [Passover Sabbath] at sunset to Friday at sunset: Day two.

Friday at Sunset to Saturday [Sabbath every week] at sunset: Day three.  72 hours in the tomb fulfilling Mt.12:40.

 There is no way posible for Jesus to have been buried in His tomb if it had been on a Friday at sunset and risen early Sunday morning and fulfilled Mt.12:40.


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on January 29, 2013, 08:25:27 AM
Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some writing. 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on January 29, 2013, 12:39:32 PM
Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some writing.



It doesn't matter whose writings you may find as to the length of time Jesus spent in the heart of the earth.  No one is going to prove Mt.12:40 by trying to make the day He was buried on a Friday.

I suggest you review the following:

http://theologyreview.com/index.php/topic,7394.0.html


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on January 29, 2013, 01:54:08 PM
Quasar,

re:  "It doesn't matter whose writings you may find as to the length of time Jesus spent in the heart of the earth."

That's ok because that's not what I'm asking. 


re:  "No one is going to prove Mt.12:40 by trying to make the day He was buried on a Friday."

That's ok because I'm not asking anyone to do that.



re:  "I suggest you review thefollowing: http://theologyreview.com/index.php/topic,7394.0.html"

Nowhere in your link does someone provide the requested documentation that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely doesn't/can't include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on January 29, 2013, 04:28:15 PM
It would help if you would say what you mean in the first place.  As I stated previously, the Scriptures are as clear as crystsl in what Jesus stated in Mt.12:40, which was three days and three nights.  Your desire to alter the Scriptures to say what you think they ought to say will not change anything they do say.


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on April 14, 2013, 09:24:40 AM


Quasar,

re:  "It would help if you would say what you mean in the first place."

I've said "what" in the OP. 



re:  " Your desire to alter the Scriptures to say what you think they ought to say will not change anything they do say."

Where have I done that?

I probably should have addressed the OP to those who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week. 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Stan on April 14, 2013, 10:04:07 AM
I started a forum a couple of weeks ago, just dedicated to this issue..

http://thedaychristrosefromthedead.info
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on April 14, 2013, 10:50:42 AM
Stan,

re:  "I started a forum a couple of weeks ago, just dedicated to this issue."

Sounds good.  I'll check it from time to time to see if anyone has the information asked for in my OP. 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on April 14, 2013, 12:25:29 PM
The following is from two different Jewish sources that should respond to your OP, rstrats.  The first one might answer your question.

How does the Messiah's crucifixion fit into the three days?

Now the events that led up to His crucifixion follow.

o The Messiah ate the Passover with His disciples at the rented room (Mt. 26:17-18), where Judas left to betray Him (Mt. 26:23). The Passover began Thursday evening at 6:00 p.m.

o After the dinner the Messiah went to the garden of Gethsemane to pray with His disciples. It was here that Judas brought the high priests with guards to apprehend him (Jn. 18:1-4).

o All during the night the high priests, Herod, and Pontus Pilate interrogated Him (Mt. 27:1-25; John 18:19-40) and put Him on trial.

o Finally, at 9:00 a.m. Friday morning, they put the Messiah on the cross (Mk. 15:25), along with the two thieves, to fulfill the priests offering morning sacrifices on the altar in the temple. See chart below)

o 9:00 a.m. is the 3rd hour of the Hebrew day, for the daylight period started at 6:00 a.m. which is sunrise.

What happened at the Messiah's death?

All accounts of the Messiah's crucifixion state that it turned dark over the face of the earth from the sixth hour, which is noon, to ninth hour, which is 3:00 p.m. So from noon to 3:00 p.m. in the afternoon it was dark which was the same as night. (See chart below)

Now this fulfilled the prophet Amos' prophecy. "I [Yahweh] will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day." Isaiah wrote that the stars and moons and constellations would not shine during this period.

Since it was dark from noon to 3:00 p.m., this means the sun had to be going down during the period from 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 noon, making the normal morning a twilight period. Clearly, when the people saw morning time turning into night, they thought this was the end of the world.

At 3:00 p.m. in the evening it started to get light again. So the period between 3:00 p.m. and 6:00 p.m. was likened unto sunrise. At 6:00 p.m., the sun was in the sky as noon. Now this fulfilled Zechariah's prophecy "…it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light…"

The three days and nights

This gives a total of 3 DAYS and 3 NIGHTS as the Messiah said in Matthew 12:40. The resurrection occurred during the early dawn of the NEW DAY, the 1st day of the week SUNDAY morning, SATURDAY being the Sabbath Day.

When His disciples asked Him about the signs of His coming and the end of the age, which was the Post-Diluvian age, Yahshua told them about the signs in the heaven. He said to them: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken (Mt. 24:29):"

It is clear that many Christians have missed this prophecy of the three days and nights and confused it with the end of our age of Grace. Now before concluding this article one has to see the principles of darkness that occurred at the Messiah's resurrection reoccurring at the end of other ages or worlds.

How did darkness occur at the end or beginning of an Age?

What must be understood about the three days and nights is that it is a principle that repeats itself at the beginning or the end of an age. Although there might not be a physical 3 days and nights, there is the principle of darkness before there is light. (See p. 32, "What does the fifth vial of darkness symbolize?" in the "7 Plagues, Part Two (The Last Four Plagues)" of the Revelation section in the November/December 1995 issue of the "PLIM REPORT.")

o Before the creation of life on earth, it was immersed in darkness (Gen. 1:1-3).

o Adam and Eve were cast out of the garden in the cool of the day (Gen. 3:8, 23-24) or as it was turning dark over the face of the earth.

o At the time of the flood, which destroyed the age, there was darkness for this period before the new age or world began.

o There was darkness in Egypt for three days (Exo. 10:21-22) before Israel began their migration out to the Promised Land.

o The Messiah's death ended the Post-Diluvian age or world with darkness and His resurrection began the New Age of Grace.

o In the book of Revelation, John sees physical darkness with death and destruction covering the earth again before the new age or world begins (Rev. 8:12; 16:10).

In conclusion, the spiritual reality of the three days and nights was a reflection of the light and darkness in the three ages of time (Ante-Diluvian, Post-Diluvian, and Present Age of Grace). However, the real mystery of the three days and three nights is that darkness reigning in mankind's mind before the DAYSTAR appears to bring about the New World or a resurrected state (2 Pet. 2:19).

The Apostle Paul said: "For Elohim (God), who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of Elohim (God) in the face of Yahshua the Messiah (Jesus Christ, 2 Cor 4:6)."
By Dr. Lee Warren,

From: http://www.occult-advances.org/nc-rel-messiah-resurrection.shtml


FROM ANOTHER SOURCE:

 Benjamin Luschen's comment on 2013-01-21 15:27:17:

Shalom! The sign of Jonah was the only sign given to the Jews, that Jesus was indeed the Messiah. This sign was asked for as a miracle. It symbolized the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord. To be reckoned by the Jews as dead He had to be in the heart of the earth 3 days and 3 nights. Jews embalmed after 3 days the body. When the women went Sunday morning Jesus was at least 3 full days dead. Because nights are mentioned He has to be 72 hours in the heart of the earth. His resurrection was the miracle and preached through the disciples, many believed, but the leaders did not repent, they spread a lie, that His disciples had stolen the body, in spite of a guard at the tomb. Nineveh repented as a nation, Israel missed it, and was destroyed in 70 AD.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-12-40/


Quasar




Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on April 14, 2013, 01:39:28 PM
Quasar,

re:  "The following is from two different Jewish sources that should respond to your OP, rstrats."

I'm afraid I don't see where either of the sources show an example regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely can't include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights.  However, the first one theorizes a possible scenario that I have never heard before, so maybe I'm missing it.  Perhaps you could explain how it shows an actual use of a phrase as requested in the OP? 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: saved on April 14, 2013, 07:09:04 PM
Quasar,

re:  "The following is from two different Jewish sources that should respond to your OP, rstrats."

I'm afraid I don't see where either of the sources show an example regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely can't include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights.  However, the first one theorizes a possible scenario that I have never heard before, so maybe I'm missing it.  Perhaps you could explain how it shows an actual use of a phrase as requested in the OP?

Show us how to get three days and three nights or any part of such with a Friday crucifixion.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on April 14, 2013, 07:49:24 PM
saved,

re:  "Show us how to get three days and three nights or any part of such with a Friday crucifixion."

I wish I could, but it is impossible.  However, 6th day crucifixion proponents say that it is an idiom that doesn't have to include at least a part of each one of the days and at least a part of each one of the nights.  If that was an accepted way of treating such a phrase in the first century, then I would think that there should be at least one example where that absolutley has to be the case. I am simply asking them to back up their idiom contention with supporting documentation.   
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: saved on April 14, 2013, 08:22:46 PM
saved,

re:  "Show us how to get three days and three nights or any part of such with a Friday crucifixion."

I wish I could, but it is impossible.  However, 6th day crucifixion proponents say that it is an idiom that doesn't have to include at least a part of each one of the days and at least a part of each one of the nights.  If that was an accepted way of treating such a phrase in the first century, then I would think that there should be at least one example where that absolutley has to be the case. I am simply asking them to back up their idiom contention with supporting documentation.
The only people that use that formula are those who have turned their brains off. There is no possible way to get three days and three nights with a Friday Crucifixion even with parts of days and nights.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on April 15, 2013, 10:25:15 AM
Quasar,

re:  "The following is from two different Jewish sources that should respond to your OP, rstrats."

I'm afraid I don't see where either of the sources show an example regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely can't include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights.  However, the first one theorizes a possible scenario that I have never heard before, so maybe I'm missing it.  Perhaps you could explain how it shows an actual use of a phrase as requested in the OP?


The fact of the matter is, they both clearly reveal the certainty of three days and three nights Hesus spent in the earth, based on the the concepts of both.  FYI, their is a never ending controversy on this very issue that will probably never end to suit everyone.


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: saved on April 15, 2013, 01:21:41 PM

The fact of the matter is, they both clearly reveal the certainty of three days and three nights Hesus spent in the earth, based on the the concepts of both.  FYI, their is a never ending controversy on this very issue that will probably never end to suit everyone.


Quasar
I would be interested in seeing your math with a Friday crucifixion on how you get three days and three nights.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on April 24, 2013, 11:58:02 AM
Quasar,

re:  "The fact of the matter is, they both clearly reveal the certainty of three days and three nights Hesus spent in the earth..."

That's an issue for another topic.  For the purpose of this one, I'm only concerned with what is asked for in the OP.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on May 10, 2013, 07:52:47 AM
Someone new looking in may know of some writing.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on July 30, 2013, 07:45:52 AM
Perhaps a slight rewording of the OP will make it a little more clear:

Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day of the week crucifixion proponents, they frequently suggest that it is a common Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: me again on July 31, 2013, 03:42:08 PM
Perhaps a slight rewording of the OP will make it a little more clear:

Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day of the week crucifixion proponents, they frequently suggest that it is a common Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?
Since the main objective was for Jesus to rise from the dead, which He did, what is the significance of either argument?
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on July 31, 2013, 07:22:32 PM
me again,

re:  "Since the main objective was for Jesus to rise from the dead, which He did, what is the significance of either argument?"

Saved covers that in reply #4. 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on September 19, 2013, 09:01:41 PM
Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in who thinks the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who gets around Matthew 12:40 by saying that it is using a common Jewish idiom where 3 nights actually means 2 nights will know of some writing. 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on April 03, 2014, 10:03:56 AM
I also should have added the phrase "...and who think that the heart of the earth is referring to the tomb..." to the OP.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on April 24, 2014, 12:28:14 AM
For another view of this, review the following:

http://carm.org/how-long-was-jesus-dead-tomb


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on April 24, 2014, 07:39:57 AM
Quaser,

I'm afraid I don't see where the link shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights.   What do you have in mind?
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on April 30, 2014, 10:19:19 AM
IMO, I see Mt.12:40 fulfilled in the following way:

The Hebrew day begins at sunset the day before and fulfills the prophecy:

Wednesday @ sunset = Thursday = 24 hours

Thursday @ sunset = Friday = 24 hours = Passover Sabbath

Friday @ sunset = Saturday =24 hours = seventh day Sabbath

Sunday morning, first day of the week = Jesus resurrected.

Describes Jesus in the tomb for three days abd three nights, confirming Mt.12:40.


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Stan on April 30, 2014, 12:36:38 PM
This topic has split church both local and regional Churches. 

Am having trouble understanding why it is so important..
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on May 02, 2014, 12:05:17 AM
This topic has split church both local and regional Churches. 

Am having trouble understanding why it is so important..



The church has been split in more ways than there are denominations, as well as the issue of Jesus statement in Mt.12:40, He would be in the earth three days AND three nights.  It has seldom been understood there was TWO Sabbaths the week He was crucified until recently brought to the light.  The fact of the matter is, it is the reason most theologians have seen Friday, as the "day before the Sabbath," they believed Jesus was crucified and died.  Which does not agree with Jesus remarks about Jonah being in the belly of the fish.  The Sabbath the Scriptures were referring to, was the Passover on Thursday, the day after Jesus crucifixion and death.

I'm sure you are as interested in wanting to know and understand the Scriptural truths as we all are.


Quasar 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on May 02, 2014, 09:36:48 AM
Someone new looking in may know of some writing.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on July 29, 2014, 12:19:40 AM
The Sabbath after Jesus died

After Tuesday sunset in 30 A.D. (when the Biblical day ended) Jesus partook of his last meal with his twelve disciples (Luke 22:14-15, etc.). Jesus’ crucifixion occurs between noon and 3pm Wednesday. He dies at 3pm. According to the Bible work was allowed on the day in order to prepare for the NEXT day, a high Holy sabbath day where no work was permitted called the Feast of Unleavened Bread (the first day of the seven-day period). This Holy day began at Wednesday sunset. Jesus was very quickly taken from the cross after his death as there were only a few short hours before God's annual Feast day (Day of Unleavened Bread) began.

"Now evening was coming, and since it was a preparation (that is, the day before a Sabbath), Joseph of Arimathea, an esteemed member of the council, who himself was waiting for the kingdom of God, came; and he went in to Pilate with boldness and requested the body of Jesus. " (Mark 15:42-43, HBFV)

The SECOND Sabbath after Jesus died

The Bible states that after the annual Sabbath known as the Feast of Unleavened Bread had ended (on sunset Thursday), three women went to buy spices for Jesus' body (Mark 16:1). After buying spices for Jesus' body, the women spent the rest of Friday preparing them. When the Saturday Sabbath started at sunset Friday the women rested (Luke 23:56).

After resting Mary Magdalene and another Mary go to observe Jesus' tomb late on the weekly Sabbath:

"Now late on the Sabbath, as the first day of the weeks was drawing near, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to observe the sepulcher." (Matthew 28:1, HBFV)
The resurrection

Some Scriptures speak of Jesus' resurrection "after three days" (Mark 8:31; Matthew 27:63). Other verses say "in three days" (Matthew 26:61, 27:40; Mark 14:58, 15:29; John 2:19-20). Still others speak of "the third day" (Mark 9:31, 10:34; Matthew 16:21, 17:23, 20:19, 27:64; Luke 9:22, 18:33, 24:7, 21, 46; Acts 10:40; 1Corinthians 15:4). Do these phrases contradict each other?

"When we understand Jesus statements, we find that instead of being contradictory, they reveal the exact time that he was raised from the dead. Jesus made it clear that he would be raised AFTER He had been dead for three days. The other statements, "in three days" and "on the third day," do not include the total time that he was dead but only the time that he was buried in the tomb. The Gospel accounts show that Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus closed the tomb just before sunset, three hours after Jesus died on the cross. Although he was in the tomb for EXACTLY three days and three nights (seventy-two hours), He was dead for a longer period than that. Thus He rose from the dead "after three days."

The difference between this statement and the statements "in three days" and "on the third day" is that these two statement refer to His burial "in the heart of the earth 3 days and 3 nights." " (The Day Jesus the Christ Died by F. Coulter, Chapter 6, emphasis added)

The resurrection of Jesus from the dead took place at sunset Saturday, April 8, 30 A.D., which is seventy-two hours after he died and was place in the heart of the earth (i.e. tomb). This fulfilled the sign of Jonah the prophet he gave in Matthew 12:38-40 and PROVED He was the TRUE Messiah to the Jews!

The Bible simply does not teach Jesus was either crucified on a Friday or resurrected on a Sunday morning. Our Savior was dead and buried in the earth a full three days and three nights, proving for all ages that he was and is the Messiah.

For the complete article: 

http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/was-jesus-in-the-grave-for-three-days-and-nights.html


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on September 12, 2014, 09:44:19 AM
Someone new looking in who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who tries to get around Matthew 12:40 by saying that is is using common first century idiomatic language may know of some writing. 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on September 15, 2014, 11:36:08 AM
IMO, I see Mt.12:40 fulfilled in the following way:

The Hebrew day begins at sunset the day before and fulfills the prophecy:

Wednesday @ sunset = Thursday = 24 hours

Thursday @ sunset = Friday = 24 hours = Passover Sabbath

Friday @ sunset = Saturday =24 hours = seventh day Sabbath

Sunday morning, first day of the week = Jesus resurrected.

Describes Jesus in the tomb for three days abd three nights, confirming Mt.12:40.


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on September 15, 2014, 01:31:34 PM
Quasar,

Since you're not a 6th day of the week crucifixion advocate, you probably won't know of any writing.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on September 21, 2014, 12:47:14 AM
No, I am a fourth day of the week, Wednesday, crucifixion advocate, as my previous post shows.  Which answers to Mt.12:40 perfectly.


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on September 21, 2014, 12:54:49 AM
No, I am a fourth day of the week, Wednesday, crucifixion advocate, as my previous post shows.  Which answers to Mt.123:40 perfectly.  Saturday is the seventh day of the week.


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on March 03, 2015, 08:55:00 AM
Since it has again been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in who thinks the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language where 3 nights actually means 2 nights, and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb, will know of some writing. 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on March 16, 2015, 11:42:51 PM
Since it has again been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in who thinks the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language where 3 nights actually means 2 nights, and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb, will know of some writing.


You have yet to find anything wrong with the following :

IMO, I see Mt.12:40 fulfilled in the following way:

The Hebrew day begins at sunset the day before and fulfills the prophecy:

Wednesday @ sunset = Thursday = 24 hours

Thursday @ sunset = Friday = 24 hours = Passover Sabbath

Friday @ sunset = Saturday =24 hours = seventh day Sabbath

Sunday morning, first day of the week = Jesus resurrected.

Describes Jesus in the tomb for three days and three nights, confirming Mt.12:40.


Quasar

Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on March 17, 2015, 07:33:46 AM
Quasar,
re:  "You have yet to find anything wrong with the following : IMO, I see Mt.12:40 fulfilled in the following way:"


That's an issue for another topic. 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on March 24, 2015, 09:23:42 PM
Quasar,
re:  "You have yet to find anything wrong with the following : IMO, I see Mt.12:40 fulfilled in the following way:"


That's an issue for another topic.


I do not subscribe to your theory in reply 48.  Matthew was the scribe who documented Jesus remark in Mt.12:40 and there are no English tranlations that give credance to it.  Check it out in the following:

http://biblehub.com/matthew/12-40.htm


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on March 24, 2015, 09:50:25 PM
Quasar,
re:  "I do not subscribe to your theory in reply 48."


What "theory" is in reply 48?
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Stan on March 31, 2015, 07:58:20 AM
Can someone please explain why which date he was crucified is relevant enough for people to get hostile over?  please...
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on March 31, 2015, 08:34:31 AM
Stan,
re:  "Can someone please explain why which date he was crucified is relevant..."


If you're referring to this topic, I don't think anything has been mentioned with regard to the date of the crucifixion.   
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on May 10, 2015, 12:41:37 PM
Can someone please explain why which date he was crucified is relevant enough for people to get hostile over?  please...


Hi Stan,

If I understand what you mean; you're questioning the importance of the discussion over the day Jesus was crucified.  The reason for it is to provide support for Jesus remark of being in the belly of the earth for three days and three nights, in Mt.12:40.


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on July 12, 2015, 04:41:17 PM
Perhaps a further rewording of the OP will make it a bit more clear:   Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day of the week crucifixion folks, they frequently assert that it is using common Jewish idiomatic language.  I wonder if anyone knows of any writing that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?  If it is using common idiomatic language, there ought to be examples of that usage in order to be able to make that assertion.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on September 23, 2015, 08:47:14 AM
Since it has been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in who thinks the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language where 3 nights actually means 2 nights, and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb, will know of some writing. 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on October 14, 2015, 01:34:28 PM
It appears that there are no 6th day of the week crucifixion advocates looking in on this topic.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on December 28, 2015, 07:32:59 AM

But if there are, remember that the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. There are other topics that do that.  However, there are those who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language such as the Messiah saying that He would be in the heart of the earth for 3 nights when He knew that it would only be for 2 nights.   But in order to say that it was common, one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern was used. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. So far no one has come forth with any. 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on February 23, 2016, 10:52:17 AM
Mt.12:39-20 happen to be one of those examples where part of a day made Jesus remarks a true fact!  Not speculation, as seen in the following:


The Hebrew day begins at sunset the day before and fulfills the prophecy:

Wednesday @ sunset = Thursday = 24 hours

Thursday @ sunset = Friday = 24 hours = Passover Sabbath

Friday @ sunset = Saturday =24 hours = seventh day Sabbath

Sunday morning, first day of the week = Jesus resurrected.

Describes Jesus in the tomb for three days and three nights, confirming Mt.12:40.


Quasar

Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: John Oscar on February 23, 2016, 01:25:41 PM
This has to be the longest discussion ever....started in November of 2012...lol   ;D
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on February 23, 2016, 01:43:38 PM


With the new year upon us, maybe there will be someone new looking in who knows of examples as requested in the OP and clarified in further posts. And again, remember that the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. As stated, there are other topics that do that. However, there are those who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language. But in order to say that it was common, one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern had to have been used. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. So far no one has come forth with any.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on February 24, 2016, 12:26:30 AM
Go to any Jewish ministry of the Gospel and you will get your answer!  Such as Jew's For Jesus, His Chosen People Ministries, or any other of many you can find by doing a Google or Bing search!

As I said before, they count any part of a day as a full day, in any prophecy.


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on February 24, 2016, 06:55:48 AM
Quasar,
re:  "Go to any Jewish ministry of the Gospel and you will get your answer! "

Do you know for a fact that they show examples where a daytime or a night time was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred? 


 re:  "As I said before, they count any part of a day as a full day, in any prophecy."

Agree.  But where are there examples of them counting a daytime or a night time as a daytime or a night time when no part of the daytime and no part of the night time could have taken place?
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on February 24, 2016, 11:28:44 AM
I gave you my answer to that in my previous post.  Why don't you take the time to start doing some investigating on your own?


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on February 25, 2016, 07:26:23 AM
Quasar,
re:  "I gave you my answer to that in my previous post."

I don't see where any of your posts give examples of a daytime or a night time being forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have taken place.
 

re:  "Why don't you take the time to start doing some investigating on your own?"

I didn't make the 6th day of the week crucifixion advocates' assertion that the missing night of Matthew 12:40 can be explained by a common idiomatic use of the language of the time.   It behooves them to support their assertion with examples. 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on February 25, 2016, 12:19:46 PM
When are you going to the party and understand, you aren't going to find the answer you're asking for here, since none that you have been given suits you?  One more time...you're going to have to put your question into a search engine and see what you get from that!  As if it is of any consequence at all.


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on February 26, 2016, 05:44:31 AM
Quasar,
re:  "...you aren't going to find the answer you're asking for here, since none that you have been given suits you..." 

The comments haven't "suited" me because they have been non responsive to my question.


re:  "One more time...you're going to have to put your question into a search engine and see what you get from that!"

I have and haven't found where a daytime or a night time was forecast in the first century to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have taken place. 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on February 26, 2016, 10:22:03 AM
Since you seem to be unable to do this for yourself, I will do it for you.  The only relevance I can find about the basis for your questioning this issue, is that you doubt what the Scriptures say about it.



DAY (Hebrew, "yom"):

By: Emil G. Hirsch, Michael Friedländer


In the Bible, the season of light (Gen. i. 5), lasting "from dawn [lit. "the rising of the morning"] to the coming forth of the stars" (Neh. iv. 15, 17). The term "day" is used also to denote a period of twenty-four hours (Ex. xxi. 21).

In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g., the day of the funeral, even when the latter takes place late in the afternoon, is counted as the first of the seven days of mourning; a short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though of the first day only a few minutes remained after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day.

Again, a man who hears of a vow made by his wife or his daughter, and desires to cancel the vow, must do so on the same day on which he hears of it, as otherwise the protest has no effect; even if the hearing takes place a little time before night, the annulment must be done within that little time. The day is reckoned from evening to evening—i.e., night and day—except in reference to sacrifices, where daytime and the night following constitute one day (Lev. vii. 15; see Calendar).

"The day" denotes: (a) Day of the Lord; (b) the Day of Atonement; (c) the treatise of the Mishnah that contains the laws concerning the Day of Atonement (See Yoma and Sabbath).

Source:  http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5007-day


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on February 26, 2016, 10:42:49 AM
Quasar,
re:  "Since you seem to be unable to do this for yourself, I will do it for you."

In order for your Jewish Encyclopedia article to be analogous to my question, it would have to show where a calendar day was counted as a calendar day when no part of the calendar day could have taken place.  It doesn't do that.



re:  "The only relevance I can find about the basis for your questioning this issue, is that you doubt what the Scriptures say about it."

Where have I done that?   To which of my posts are you referring?
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on February 26, 2016, 11:16:45 PM
Quasar,
re:  "Since you seem to be unable to do this for yourself, I will do it for you."

In order for your Jewish Encyclopedia article to be analogous to my question, it would have to show where a calendar day was counted as a calendar day when no part of the calendar day could have taken place.  It doesn't do that.



re:  "The only relevance I can find about the basis for your questioning this issue, is that you doubt what the Scriptures say about it."

Where have I done that?   To which of my posts are you referring?


And just where in the Bible do you find a calendar day was counted as a calendar day when no part of the calendar day could have taken place? 


Quasar


Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on February 27, 2016, 07:43:27 AM
Quasar,
re:  "And just where in the Bible do you find a calendar day was counted as a calendar day when no part of the calendar day could have taken place?"

Nowhere that I'm aware of.   And where is a night time counted as a night time when no part of a night time could have occurred?

BTW, you have a question directed to you in post #70.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on February 27, 2016, 12:20:27 PM
In order for you to find the answers to your questions on this issue, it will be necessary to understand the ancient Hebrew way of determining their day and night time definitions, such as the following:

The Jews appear anciently to have divided the night (from sunset to sunrise) into three watches. (Judges 7:19; Ex. 14:24; I Sam.:1 ; Lam. 2:19.) But in the time of Christ the night was divided into four watches. (Matt. 14:25; Mark 6:48.) Hence Christ said that the master of the house might come "at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning." Mark 13:35.

It also appears that the Jews divided the night (from sunset to sunrise) into hours. Luke says that it was "at the third hour of the night" (Acts 23 :23) that Lysias sent Paul, escorted by soldiers, from Jerusalem to Caesarea. This was nine o'clock in the evening. The Lord's messenger comments thus : "At nine in the evening, the body of soldiers, with Paul in the midst, marched out of the fortress, and through the dark and silent streets of the city, and at a rapid pace pursued their journey toward Caesarea."—Sketches From the Life of Paul, p. 227. (Many Bible commentators concur in this opinion.)

https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1946/04/jewish-division-of-day-into-hours

 See following charts:

http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/charts/jewishtimedivision.htm


Re your question in post #70:  Are you not questioning the viability of the written word?  IMO, you are.


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on February 28, 2016, 07:50:38 AM
Quasar,
re:  "In order for you to find the answers to your questions on this issue, it will be necessary to understand the ancient Hebrew way of determining their day and night time definitions, such as the following:"

There is only one topic question:  "What examples from the first century or before are there which show that it was common to forecast a daytime or a night time being involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could actually have occurred?"  To that end I don't see where your comments or links provide the requested examples.



re:  "Re your question in post #70:  Are you not questioning the viability of the written word?" 

Absolutely not.  Specifically what have I written that could give you that idea? 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on February 28, 2016, 10:15:23 AM
FYI, you will not obtain any better response to your questions than what you have received, for what importance there is to any of it.  Just what do you mean by the "sixth day crucifixion folks," in the OP?


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on February 29, 2016, 08:05:32 AM
Quasar,
re:  "FYI, you will not obtain any better response to your questions than what you have received..."

So far it looks that way.  There have been zero applicable replies.



re:  "Just what do you mean by the 'sixth day crucifixion folks', in the OP?"

Those who believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week.   
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on February 29, 2016, 12:11:17 PM
The sixth day of the week is Friday, which has been shown to be in error, on several previous posts on this thread.

When the time comes when you believe the answer to your OP has been produced to your satisfaction, to what means will it achieve for you?

IMO, it is of no relevance to anything.  To what effect are you placing on it that has any Scriptural significance to it at all?


Quasar 
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on February 29, 2016, 01:30:46 PM
Quasar,
re: "The sixth day of the week is Friday, which has been shown to be in error..."

I don't understand.  First you assert that Friday is the 6th day of the week and then in the same sentence say that it isn't.  What am I missing?



re:  "When the time comes when you believe the answer to your OP has been produced to your satisfaction, to what means will it achieve for you?"

It will simply let me know that in the first century it was common to forecast a daytime or a night time being involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have taken place. 



re:  "To what effect are you placing on it that has any Scriptural significance to it at all?"

It would take away one of the defenses against a 6th day of the week crucifixion.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on February 29, 2016, 10:57:07 PM
Quasar,
re: "The sixth day of the week is Friday, which has been shown to be in error..."

I don't understand.  First you assert that Friday is the 6th day of the week and then in the same sentence say that it isn't.  What am I missing?



re:  "When the time comes when you believe the answer to your OP has been produced to your satisfaction, to what means will it achieve for you?"

It will simply let me know that in the first century it was common to forecast a daytime or a night time being involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have taken place. 



re:  "To what effect are you placing on it that has any Scriptural significance to it at all?"

It would take away one of the defenses against a 6th day of the week crucifixion.



You labor under false pretenses.  I have never said that the sixth day was the day Jesus was crucified.  Show mw where you got any such idea as that.  I showed you where Wednesday was the day Jesus was crucified and died.

I suggest you review the way you go about obtaining support for your belief Jesus was not crucified and died on the sixth day, i.e. ay!  The proof you want has already been posted on this thread.  Check it out!


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on March 01, 2016, 06:07:13 AM
Quasar,
re:  ".  I have never said that the sixth day was the day Jesus was crucified."

And I have never said that you have.  I don't know where you get that idea.



re: "I suggest you review the way you go about obtaining support for your belief Jesus was not crucified and died on the sixth day, i.e. ay!  The proof you want has already been posted on this thread."

For the purpose of this topic, the only proof I'm looking for is whether or not it was common to forecast a daytime or a night time being involved with an event when at least a part of the daytime or at least a part of the night time couldn't have taken place. I've checked out all of the above posts and none of them provide any such proof.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on March 01, 2016, 11:29:46 AM
Quote by rstrats on 2/1/2016 -post #80:
"And I have never said that you have.  I don't know where you get that idea".

Quoted by rstrats on 2/29/2016 - post #78:
"I don't undestand.  First you assert that Friday is the 6th day of the week and then in the same sentence say that it isn't.  What am I missing?"

How come you don't seem to remember what you posted from one day to the next?

The following are the Scriptural facts pertaining to Mt.12:39-40{  On post #60 - 2/23/2016:

"Mt.12:39-20 happen to be one of those examples where part of a day made Jesus remarks a true fact!  Not speculation, as seen in the following:


The Hebrew day begins at sunset the day before and fulfills the prophecy:

Wednesday @ sunset = Thursday = 24 hours [When Jesus was crucified and died]

Thursday @ sunset = Friday = 24 hours = Passover Sabbath

Friday @ sunset = Saturday =24 hours = seventh day Sabbath

Sunday morning, first day of the week = Jesus resurrected.

Describes Jesus in the tomb for three days and three nights, confirming Mt.12:40."


I'm finished with this circular charade here and now!


Quasar
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on March 01, 2016, 01:51:04 PM

Quasar,
re:  "How come you don't seem to remember what you posted from one day to the next?"

I remember perfectly. You seem to be the one that can't remember what you said.  In your post #77 you wrote:  "The sixth day of the week is Friday, which has been shown to be in error..."
Again, you say that Friday is the sixth day of the week and then certainly seem to say that that designation has been shown to be in error i.e., that Friday is not a designation for the 6th day of the week.  That sure sounds contradictory to me.  Plus it has nothing to do with the purpose of this topic.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on March 01, 2016, 10:57:05 PM
The sixth day is Friday, which has been proven to be in error AS THE DAY OF JESUS CRUCIFIXION!  Capiche?!  That is what the subject is about, mis it not?

Good bye.  Have a great super Tuesday.


Quasar

Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on March 02, 2016, 06:20:48 AM
Quasar,
re:  "The sixth day is Friday, which has been proven to be in error AS THE DAY OF JESUS CRUCIFIXION!"

That may be what you meant, but that is not what you wrote.  I'm not a mind reader.

Perhaps someone new looking in will know of some writing.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: Quasar on March 02, 2016, 11:29:05 AM
You don't have a clue as to what my intended meanings were, so don't try putting words in my mouth!  As I said before, I'm out of this thread, as it has been long overcooked!


Quasar 
Title: Matthew 12:40 Employing Common Idiomatic Language?
Post by: rstrats on August 19, 2016, 02:33:05 PM
Someone new looking in may know of examples.
Title: Re: Three Days and Three Nights
Post by: rstrats on November 02, 2017, 08:54:31 AM
Or not.