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SCHOOL of THEOLOGY => Religion & Theology => Topic started by: John Oscar on January 06, 2013, 07:34:04 AM

Title: Are the Seal's in Revelation Judgments?
Post by: John Oscar on January 06, 2013, 07:34:04 AM
I've been reading in Revelation about what has been historically taught as the "Three sets of judgments" God has for the world; the Seals, the Trumpets, and the Bowls.

However, looking at it, besides the 6th Seal (great earthquake), could anything prior to that be considered a true judgment?  Or, is God setting up the conditions for the true judgments to come (Trumpets and Seals).

If not, then the question of what is considered to be the "Tribulation" comes to mind, and then questions of pre/mid/post trib come to mind.  If the Seals are not considered to be part of the judgment/trib, then we could be in the midst of them now and not mess with a pre-Trib person's escatology...

I'm not stating any of this as fact, but more thinking out loud.  What do you think?  (please don't scream heretic at me...it's just some thoughts I had)   :D
Title: Re: Are the Seal's in Revelation Judgments?
Post by: me again on January 06, 2013, 09:58:10 AM
If the Seals are not considered to be part of the judgment/trib, then we could be in the midst of them now...

That's excellent insight and others have also recently suggested it. The seals may have begun with WWI or sometime in the early 20th Century or at some other start-point.

Americans have frequently viewed bible prophecy as if it revolved around the United States, but that may not be the case. The prophecies of famines and wars may already be in the process of fulfillment, even though they haven't touched the shores of America. Horrific things have been happening globally since at least the early 20th Century (WWI is an example).

Instead of viewing the horrific prophecies as unfolding in six months, it may take a hundred years -- or longer.
Title: Re: Are the Seal's in Revelation Judgments?
Post by: John Oscar on January 06, 2013, 05:00:42 PM
I agree- one cannot begin to interpret biblical prophecy with America in mind.  It all focus' around Israel.  The fact America is not in the bible is telling.  To me it means that as much as it hurts my patriot heart- America has to cease to exist as a world power prior to the fullness of the prophecies of Revelation coming into affect.
Title: Re: Are the Seal's in Revelation Judgments?
Post by: me again on January 07, 2013, 10:15:55 AM
...America is not in the bible...

A guy named Irvin Baxter (http://www.endtime.com/united-states-discovered-in-the-bible/) says that the U.S. is in the bible. Baxter says that in Daniel 7:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+7:4&version=KJV), the lion with wings is Britain -- and when the scripture says that the wings were plucked from the lion, it was the creation of the U.S. in 1776 because the symbol of the U.S. is eagles wings.

Quote from: Daniel 7:4, KJV
The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

I have no conclusive opinion on his interpretation, but find it to be very interesting.
Title: Re: Are the Seal's in Revelation Judgments?
Post by: Quasar on January 07, 2013, 11:03:56 AM
I've been reading in Revelation about what has been historically taught as the "Three sets of judgments" God has for the world; the Seals, the Trumpets, and the Bowls.

However, looking at it, besides the 6th Seal (great earthquake), could anything prior to that be considered a true judgment?  Or, is God setting up the conditions for the true judgments to come (Trumpets and Seals).

If not, then the question of what is considered to be the "Tribulation" comes to mind, and then questions of pre/mid/post trib come to mind.  If the Seals are not considered to be part of the judgment/trib, then we could be in the midst of them now and not mess with a pre-Trib person's escatology...

I'm not stating any of this as fact, but more thinking out loud.  What do you think?  (please don't scream heretic at me...it's just some thoughts I had)   :D



Very good observation, John.  Yes, IMO, the first six seals is the prolog to the following judgements contained in the seventh seal. Containing the seven trumpet judgements,  followed by the seven bowl/vial judgements.  The seals are an amplified version of Mt.24; Mk. 3 and Lk.21, that are themselves an amplification of Dan.9:27.

As for the U.S. being in the Bible is concerned, consideration is given to the Europeans who were the first settlers of our country, who were all a part of the old Roman Empire during the days of Jesus first advent.  As such, the U.S. is therefore a part of the coming renewal of the fourth beast of Dan.7:7, which is reference to the Roman empire of Jesus first advent that will exist again when He returns in His second advent as recorded in Rev.17:9-11.


Quasar