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SCHOOL of THEOLOGY => Catholicism => Topic started by: Zaph on June 29, 2014, 10:07:08 AM

Title: Can't be a Christian outside of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Zaph on June 29, 2014, 10:07:08 AM
This new Pope is fast gaining popularity even among the non Catholics. It's time that some go to the library and dig up those old history books and read for themselves what happened and why. People need to understand what it means to be a Protestant. The Roman Catholic Church has not changed it's beliefs or teachings and this new Pope makes it very clear.

“There are those who believe you can have a personal, direct, immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside of the communion and the mediation of the Church,” he continued. “These are dangerous and harmful temptations.” 

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=21814

Recently the Pope sent a messenger to one of the leaders of the pentecostal movement declaring that Martin Luther's protest is over and more or less invited the leaders to come back home. We live in interesting times.
Title: Re: Can't be a Christian outside of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: me again on July 04, 2014, 01:20:04 PM
Can't be a Christian outside of the Roman Catholic Church

Did the Pope say "Church" or "Roman Catholic Church"?

There are different branches of Catholicism, to include:
- Roman Rite aka Roman Catholic
- Eastern Orthodox aka Eastern Catholic
- Etc.

The Pope is in charge of the "Roman" Catholic Churches, but not in charge of other Catholic Churches, such as the Eastern Orthodox Church.

In Romish theology, the people are the Church. The Protestant way of saying the same thing is, "Born again believers are the Church." Also, "Catholic" means universal, so in Romish theology, the people of God are Catholic, even if they are not Romish.

The devil uses semantics to divide and conquer -- even today. However, the Lord knows who His people are, regardless of their earthly denominational title.
Title: Re: Can't be a Christian outside of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: John Oscar on July 05, 2014, 04:00:58 PM
Only an opinion-

If you measure a denomination by it's success in bringing people to saving faith in Jesus the Christ as Lord and Savior, the Roman Catholic Church probably has the largest failure rate of any modern denomination.  I'm not saying you can't be saved and Catholic, I'm only saying the purity of the Gospel gets lost in the minutia of the church's extra biblical ritual and beliefs.
Not to say that many Protestant denominations don't share the same problem...

Just an opinion.
Title: Re: Can't be a Christian outside of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: me again on July 06, 2014, 11:46:15 AM
If you measure a denomination by it's success in bringing people to saving faith in Jesus the Christ as Lord and Savior, the Roman Catholic Church probably has the largest failure rate of any modern denomination.

Denominations rise and fall in growth and in popularity, but where is the Body of Christ in this mix? In heaven, we are not known by our earthly denominational titles, but we are simply members of the Body of Christ, washed by the Blood of the Lamb. 

It’s interesting how denominations, both Protestant and Catholic (Eastern Catholic, Western Catholic, Coptic Catholic, et al), are all formed for purposes of reformation. Many Protestant denominations are or were begun with good intentions and there are now 30,000 Protestant denominations. However, who and where is the Body of Christ in this mix?

Take Presbyterianism as an example. It was formed in the late 1600s (officially in 1707) as a “reformed Protestantism.”  Then when the Presbyterians allegedly began apostatizing by recognizing extra-biblical ordination of homosexuals (and other forms of alleged apostasy), the Presbyterians split again in 1973 into the Presbyterian USA (https://www.pcusa.org/) v. the Presbyterian PCA (http://www.pcanet.org/).  Where is the Body of Christ in this mix? 

John Oscar’s original statement is a “feel good declaration,” but it would be interesting to examine the issue of bringing people to a saving faith in Jesus Christ from God’s timeline-perspective, as opposed to making an isolated snapshot judgment from the year 2014. 

Jesus said, “Of those whom you gave me, I have not lost one” (John 18:9 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+18%3A9&version=ESV)b)
Title: Re: Can't be a Christian outside of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: John Oscar on July 19, 2014, 06:31:40 AM
All denomination/movement/fellowships (whatever title you give them) suffer from the same law of entropy as anything else in life.  Generally about 3 generations in, they loose the original fire that caused them to "reform", and they substitute external religious activity for the passion of knowing God.

You even often, but not always, see this in families- first generation Christians are on fire.  Second have some passion but it's more tradition for them, third generation leaves the faith.

Title: Re: Can't be a Christian outside of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: me again on July 20, 2014, 02:01:04 PM
All denomination/movement/fellowships (whatever title you give them) suffer from the same law of entropy as anything else in life.  Generally about 3 generations in, they loose the original fire that caused them to "reform", and they substitute external religious activity for the passion of knowing God.

You even often, but not always, see this in families- first generation Christians are on fire.  Second have some passion but it's more tradition for them, third generation leaves the faith.

Excellent observation. Things seem to get watered down. When and where will the next burning ember set ablaze the next raging fire of passion? lol

From generation to generation, until Jesus comes...

Title: Re: Can't be a Christian outside of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Zaph on July 27, 2014, 12:19:24 PM
The devil uses semantics to divide and conquer -- even today. However, the Lord knows who His people are, regardless of their earthly denominational title.

Semantics..yes.. it's an interesting way of doing things. Borrow terminology but have different definitions. The Roman Catholic Church and it's various leaders and popes are always very careful with how they word things. Even when they apologize for past atrocities. I wonder if one were to ask directly if the Catholic Church was sorry for the burning of Huss, Jerome, and John Knox and folks like them what would they say? Especially since they believed they were purifying the Church of heretics.

So I ask the following. If you're a Protestant do you know why you are?
Title: Re: Can't be a Christian outside of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: me again on July 29, 2014, 06:30:07 PM
Semantics..yes.. it's an interesting way of doing things. Borrow terminology but have different definitions. The Roman Catholic Church and it's various leaders and popes are always very careful with how they word things. Even when they apologize for past atrocities. I wonder if one were to ask directly if the Catholic Church was sorry for the burning of Huss, Jerome, and John Knox and folks like them what would they say? Especially since they believed they were purifying the Church of heretics.

So I ask the following. If you're a Protestant do you know why you are?

Many are Protestants because they were born into their denomination. Others found religion and got saved and were baptized into a Protestant denomination. Many wear denominational titles, but they are not saved or converted in their heart.

The Roman Catholics have specific doctrinal dogmas, just like the Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, SeventhDay Adventists, Presbyterians and many others. There have been unconverted people who wear the title of Roman Catholic who have committed atrocities but conversely, there have been born again Protestant Christians who have made mistakes. The point is that Christianity cannot be completely tossed out the window since there have been some Roman Catholics in ages past who made mistakes. The underlying principle is the Blood of Christ -- and only God knows who is truly converted and who is not.

There are some denominations that teach that the Roman Catholic Church is the biblical whore of Babylon, but that is a theological mistake.
Title: Re: Can't be a Christian outside of the Roman Catholic Church
Post by: Quasar on August 11, 2014, 12:32:01 AM
Many are Protestants because they were born into their denomination. Others found religion and got saved and were baptized into a Protestant denomination. Many wear denominational titles, but they are not saved or converted in their heart.

The Roman Catholics have specific doctrinal dogmas, just like the Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, SeventhDay Adventists, Presbyterians and many others. There have been unconverted people who wear the title of Roman Catholic who have committed atrocities but conversely, there have been born again Protestant Christians who have made mistakes. The point is that Christianity cannot be completely tossed out the window since there have been some Roman Catholics in ages past who made mistakes. The underlying principle is the Blood of Christ -- and only God knows who is truly converted and who is not.

There are some denominations that teach that the Roman Catholic Church is the biblical whore of Babylon, but that is a theological mistake.


Interesting views, however, the RCC dominated the church scenario of more than 1,600 years and brought in such heresies as Amillennialism, Replacement theology and the doctrine of the Trinity.  As far as the latter is concerned, I am aware that most of you believe in it.  However, when you put it to serious study and research, you will find, Neither Jesus, His disciples of the Bible teach any such thing.  Rather than being Biblically motivated, but rather, it was politically motivated in its acceptance into the annals of the church by the emperor of Rome, Constantine, in the 4th century.

See: http://theologyreview.com/index.php/topic,7636.0.html

The description of the mother of prostitutes in Rev.17 fits the RCC to a "T," in which the only other religion who sit on "many waters,' is Islam.  The other one is the Church, but they are in heaven during the tribulation, for their wedding to the Lamb, recorded in Rev.19:7-8, having been caught up to meet the Lord in the sky, as recorded in 1 Thess.4:17, before the tribulation begins, recorded in 2 Thess.2:3 and 7, so they are not involved. 

Whether the RCC or Islam as the false religion, the two beasts, the Antichrist, the False Prophet and the ten horns/nations are going to kill them off as recorded in Rev.17:15-16, and the Antichrist will set himself up in God's temple and call himself God, as recorded in 2 Thess.2:4.

Since the "he" of Dan.9:27 confirms a covenant [a 7 year binding agreement] with Israel, and her surrounding neighbors, it is very unlikely such could be effected between Israel and her Muslim neighbors, which is painfully clear in the present day chaos between Israel and the Palestinians.  Which leaves the RCC as the best candidate.  However, the Pope cannot possibly be the Antichrist, because the person who is going to be, was dead at the time John wrote Revelation, before the RCC existed, as recorded in Rev.17:8 and 11.


Quasar