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Can women teach or have authority over men?

o, not for any reason
4 (50%)
ot in the church, but she can teach men elsewhere
1 (12.5%)
es, as long as its not in the Sabbath day service
1 (12.5%)
nsure or I don\'t like any of these choices
2 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 2

Author Topic: Can women teach or have authority over men?  (Read 2031 times)

Offline me again

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Can women teach or have authority over men?
« on: January 27, 2007, 06:49:12 PM »
What do you think? :eek:

Here is an interesting article:
Quote
Female seminary professor told: You can't teach men

FORT WORTH - A theology professor at a prominent Southern Baptist seminary said officials told her to leave because women are biblically forbidden from teaching men.

It is the largest Protestant denomination in the country, with more than 16 million members.

McClain said Klouda was not dismissed but that she was not granted tenure. He also said it has been rare for women to teach theology at Southern Baptist seminaries.

"With regard to the tightening of the policy of women teaching in the school of theology, there has been no change in policy but rather a return to the way it has always been," he said. "There was a momentary lax of the parameters, and (the seminary) has now returned to its traditional, confessional and biblical position."
Click here for the full story. :eek:
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Can women teach or have authority over men?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2007, 08:22:36 PM »
Hmm....

I didn't select any of the options, because they would not fully explain my stance.

The point of the prohibitions in Timothy and Ephesians are about preserving  lines of spiritual authority to men only.  Like it or not, that is the biblical model of the church.

Teachers in biblical times were afforded a great deal of honor and authority within Judaism.  They were included in the Sanhedrin, and had the honorific of "Rabbi"

That position carried over into the early Christian church, and with it the authority.  That is what lead to Paul prohibiting females from a role that carried with it spiritual authority.  This is the way it was in all of the churches Paul oversaw.  (1 Cor 11:16)

A college, even a bible college, is not a church.  There really isn't a direct correlation to anything in NT times, aside from Gamilial's school perhaps.

The position of theology professor would carry no spiritual authority that I can see and in my opinion, would be open for women.  

I also note that they are very against any sort of charismatic gifts.  That’s too bad, as it is biblical and a source of great power and intimacy with God
John O


Offline me again

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Re: Can women teach or have authority over men?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2007, 08:43:55 AM »
Quote from: John Oscar;38527
A college, even a bible college, is not a church.  There really isn't a direct correlation to anything in NT times, aside from Gamilial's school perhaps.

The position of theology professor would carry no spiritual authority that I can see and in my opinion, would be open for women.  
But a seminary is training future spiritual leaders on spiritual issues, so should that issue preclude women from teaching in a professor-to-student capacity? The purpose of seminary is to train spiritual leaders to be preachers.
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Hugh McBryde

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Depending on the context, maybe.
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2007, 03:19:54 PM »
Clearly Deborah the Judge operated with some form of authority, as well as Huldah, the Prophetess.  As I have often remarked, neither of them did so in the temple or sanctuary.  It is a fact that the only person recorded by name to have spoken in the sanctuary, in either the Old or New Testament, was Athaliah, the usurper Queen and murderess who was immediately taken OUT of the sanctuary by priests, and killed.

Clearly there is a limited authoritarian role of women in some way over some men, but there is never any legitimate reason for it to occur in the church.  Paul remarked on women needing to remain silent in the churches, which clearly says that some of them didn't, however, he never gives any of these women a name.

hardcoreC

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The truth hurts
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2007, 02:24:30 AM »
:bla:
Could you please tell me which is more valuable. a Gold bow or Gold cuffs? They both have the same value just differ in jobs to do! God said that a man shall be joined to a woman and they shall become one being. With the man as the head. I know it's difficult to accept, I know this first hand as I am also a woman. But men are our leaders.  Just as the saying goes, behind every great man is a great woman. Our job is to keep our families and homes together, to raise children for God. Yes we are subject to our husbands. But we are also their support. They rely on us as their second. God formed Eve from a rib of Adam's. not a hair on his head to be above him. No on the soles of his feet to be walked upon. But his rib... to be protected under the arm. And to be close and to protect the heart.. True, women jobs aren't emphasized much in the bible. But we each have our job to do, God loves children. He loves a woman who puts others wants and needs before our own. Because you see, we are the most powerful, because we rock the cradle of the nation...We mold the future minds...Jesus said suffer not a woman to teach. Why would you want a ministering job? to teach men? If you where going out to teach a family about God, Who do you think the man in the house will listen to without feeling threatened? A woman trying to tell him how to run his family? Or someone he can come to terms with? I know it’s not a very varied field... but we all have our parts to do for God.. After all? Isn’t the point to be willing to change ourselves for God?

dtcs

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Re: Can women teach or have authority over men?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2007, 05:40:26 AM »
Some of the greatest teachers of the church have been women both by their words and deeds - Priscilla, Teresa of Avila, Dorothy Sayers, Evelyn Underhill, Madam Guyon, Mother Teresa, Annie Dillard, Marva Dawn, Kathleen Norris, etc... I think silencing the women would mean denying half of the church membership of their gifts of wisdom and insights, which amounts to quenching the Spirit.

dtcs

Angel2Drew

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Re: Can women teach or have authority over men?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2007, 06:42:54 AM »
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. (KJV)

We see that women are to teach other women on how to live the godly life, how to be a good wife and how to take care of things in their home. Basically it is like reading Proverbs 31. We see that their primary ministry is in the home. Many a mother has had a great influence on their children that later have shaped the history of the church as well as the world.


Now my question is..... Can a woman lead a lost man to Christ? That would be a form of teaching right? I do not believe that women can be Pastors, because the Bible gives us examples of what it takes to be a Pastor and a women can not have one wife....lol But I do believe that a women can teach non believers or as in my case a new Christian husband.

When my husband and I married he was a new Christian. He will be the first to tell you he has learned a lot from me, and I from him, but it was not done in the Church. I have lead Bible study in our home where men attended, was that wrong? I am not sure.

I believe a women can share the gospel. But I also believe there is a fine line that we should not cross when it comes to the Church and our roles in leadership.

Offline Tom

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Re: Can women teach or have authority over men?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2007, 08:28:43 AM »
The ladies here have done a fine job of articulating the differing roles of men and women in ministry.

I believe the work of women in the home, with their families has done more to glorify God and build the church collectively than all the works of men combined. Women have labored alongside their husbands on the mission field for centuries. A woman can share the gospel with whomever God leads her to share it. Scripture does, however, prohibit women from holding positions of authority in the church. When God dealt out the punishment for sin in Genesis 3 this is when he set the roles for men and women and he has held to those roles through the generations.
John 14:6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me."
Sometimes the Gospel is not presented clearly enough for the non-elect to reject it.

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Can women teach or have authority over men?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2007, 08:36:58 AM »
Tom,
That is a very well written and articulate post!  It explains the biblical view in a very concise manner!  :orange:
John O


Offline Tom

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Re: Can women teach or have authority over men?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2007, 08:45:35 AM »
Quote from: John Oscar;38697
Tom,
That is a very well written and articulate post!  It explains the biblical view in a very concise manner!  :orange:




Thank you John.
John 14:6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me."
Sometimes the Gospel is not presented clearly enough for the non-elect to reject it.

Hugh McBryde

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Oh?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2007, 11:11:44 AM »
Quote from: dtcs;38688
"Some of the greatest teachers of the church have been women both by their words and deeds - Priscilla.."
Yeah, I've got her teachings right her, in the first Letter of Priscilla....no, really, it's here somewhere....
Quote from: dtcs;38688
"Teresa of Avila, Dorothy Sayers, Evelyn Underhill, Madam Guyon, Mother Teresa, Annie Dillard, Marva Dawn, Kathleen Norris, etc... I think silencing the women would mean denying half of the church membership of their gifts of wisdom and insights, which amounts to quenching the Spirit."
Who?

dtcs

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Re: Can women teach or have authority over men?
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2007, 12:39:01 AM »
Hi Hugh,

Maybe we disagree in our estimation of Priscilla as a teacher. That she was mentioned several times in scripture with her husband in the early church as teaching Apollos, a man mighty in scripture, aright concerning baptism impresses on me that she must be an exceptionally remarkable teacher. Apollos' understanding of salvation and of the Spirit would have been much impoverished without her guidance.

Your 'Who?' comes across as rhetorical so I suppose you have little interest in learning more about and from these very remarkable teachers in matters spiritual and theological?.... but frankly, when I think about this issue, I cannot help but be impressed by the fact that God has gifted the church some very good teachers like them throughout history and if we hold to the position that 'women can't teach men in church', there is at least the possiblity that we might be stifling the voice of the Spirit through our mothers and sisters and daughters in Christ.

blessings,
dtcs

Hugh McBryde

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Never without Aquila
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2007, 10:57:24 AM »
Quote from: dtcs;38815
"Maybe we disagree in our estimation of Priscilla as a teacher. That she was mentioned several times in scripture with her husband in the early church as teaching Apollos, a man mighty in scripture, aright concerning baptism impresses on me that she must be an exceptionally remarkable teacher."
Was that SEVERAL times, without her husband?  Act 18:26:
Quote
"And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly."
To my knowledge, Priscilla is refered to 5 times by name and once by Prisca, never without mentioning Aquila as being with her.  They are said to instruct APOLLOS, TOGETHER, one time that I can remember.  Not only this, but they "took him unto them" or "took him aside" (other translations) and Priscilla clearly does not teach him in the sanctuary, or absent the covering of her husband's interactive presence.
Quote from: dtcs;38815
"Your 'Who?' comes across as rhetorical so I suppose you have little interest in learning more about and from these very remarkable teachers in matters spiritual and theological?"
For the sake of discussion, I will cede you the point that they are all "remarkable" and let it mean anything short of "divinely inspired".  Scripture is the basis for doctrine.

 

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