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Author Topic: Are people elected to Hell?  (Read 11100 times)

Cop4Christ

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Are people elected to Hell?
« on: April 28, 2007, 04:25:30 PM »
Why or why not.  If some are elected to Glory, the rest must be elected to hell so why doesn't the Bible mention this?

Offline Tom

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Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2007, 04:59:48 PM »
No, they aren't elected to hell. Election is an act that is only applied to the children of God. The children of the devil aren't afforded that much consideration.
John 14:6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me."
Sometimes the Gospel is not presented clearly enough for the non-elect to reject it.

Offline me again

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Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2007, 05:58:16 PM »
I've had several raging debates with people about this issue (not here at this forum, but in person).  Yes, there are people who are destined to go to hell and who never have a chance to enter the kingdom of heaven.  God alone is sovereign enough to determine who will enter his kingdom -- and who won't.  Period.  No ifs, ands or buts.  Not even a maybe.  :noidea: He has His criteria and His decision is perfect.  Come, let us praise Him for His selections on who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.  Come, won't you join me in praising His perfection?  Or will you join with those who say that they will not serve Him if he is willing to send people to hell? :eek: :smack:
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Cop4Christ

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Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2007, 06:38:05 PM »
So lets see if I got this right.  People are elected to Heaven and their free will has nothing to do with it.  People are left out through no choice of their own too.   What does that say about the Character of God?  I mean if I got stuck going to hell through no choice of my own, I have a bone to pick with somebody.

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2007, 06:59:26 PM »
Not that I'm defending Calvin's heresy, but who exactly are you going to pick this bone with?  God?  

If Calvin's theology is right, then God has made His choice, period.  You could no more accuse Him of wrongdoing then stand before a F5 tornado and tell it "not this house"
John O


Offline John Oscar

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Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2007, 07:02:16 PM »
BTW, as I understand Calvin's theology, people aren't technically elected to hell.  All of humanity are all heading to hell because of Adam's, and then our sin.  

God elected some of us by His soverign choice to heaven.  That's Calvin's bent on it anyway (not that I agree with this).
John O


Cop4Christ

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Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2007, 07:31:51 PM »
I think that God doesn't want any to perish, that is my God.  2 Pet 3:9 if I am not mistaken.  I believe that Jesus was elected, I get this from 1 Peter 2: 4As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him—.Rev 13:4 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.  Eph. 1:4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.   Notice it says "In Him".  In Romans 1:20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.  What is meant by without excuse?  Why bother if they are not elect?  I am sorry you Hyper Calvinist have a huge problem, but I would be asking you too much to say you are not better than the others.

Offline Tom

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Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2007, 07:58:03 PM »
Quote from: Cop4Christ;39391
I think that God doesn't want any to perish, that is my God.  2 Pet 3:9 if I am not mistaken.  I believe that Jesus was elected, I get this from 1 Peter 2: 4As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him—.Rev 13:4 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.  Eph. 1:4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.   Notice it says "In Him".  In Romans 1:20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.  What is meant by without excuse?  Why bother if they are not elect?  I am sorry you Hyper Calvinist have a huge problem, but I would be asking you too much to say you are not better than the others.



The verses you quote in Peter do not apply to the non-elect. read the begining of the Book. Who is it addressed to?

As far as Calvinist being "better than the others". It is quite the opposite. The Calvinist realizes he can never of his own free will choose God because he is totally depraved, only God's Grace gives him any worth whatsoever. It is the Arminian that says, "I chose God so I am worthy." That is the true arrogance.
John 14:6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me."
Sometimes the Gospel is not presented clearly enough for the non-elect to reject it.

Cop4Christ

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Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2007, 08:12:06 PM »
Notice here from John the 3rd chapter.  Does this world mean all people or just the elect? 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son"

Offline Tom

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Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2007, 08:47:37 PM »
The Bible teaches that God saves "a remnant" for himself. He saved a remnant of Israel, not the whole nation.

Interestingly people don't seem to have a problem with God choosing Israel out of all the nations of the world and refusing the rest. Scripture teaches that before Christ gentiles were without God and without hope in the world.

He loved the world,enough to save some out of the world. Nowhere does it say that he wants to save the whole world or that he loves every person in the world. If God wanted to save everyone he surely could of accomplished it.
John 14:6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me."
Sometimes the Gospel is not presented clearly enough for the non-elect to reject it.

Cop4Christ

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Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2007, 09:43:06 PM »
No where does it say that God will save only Israelites.  They were chosen to be keepers of His truth.  Psalm 96 seems to indicate this...
1 Sing to the LORD a new song;
       sing to the LORD, all the earth.

 2 Sing to the LORD, praise his name;
       proclaim his salvation day after day.

 3 Declare his glory among the nations,
       his marvelous deeds among all peoples.

 4 For great is the LORD and most worthy of praise;
       he is to be feared above all gods.

 5 For all the gods of the nations are idols,
       but the LORD made the heavens

What about Rahab, and Ruth?  What about Jonah going to Nineveh?
Also Jesus was answered why he hung out with sinners in Luke 15, and he gave three stories that indicate that he wanted ALL!

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2007, 10:34:14 PM »
Quote from: Tom;39394

Interestingly people don't seem to have a problem with God choosing Israel out of all the nations of the world and refusing the rest. Scripture teaches that before Christ gentiles were without God and without hope in the world.



That is only half correct.  God choose Israel to carry the seed of the Christ and be His special people.  It doesn't say that God hated all of the other nations.  
On the contrary, there are several examples in scripture where God goes to the nations around Israel to warn them of upcoming judgment (Jonah for example), and when they turned from there sins, He relented.
John O


kevingaily

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Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2007, 11:19:44 PM »
Quote
Luke 13:33-35(NIV)

 33In any case, I must keep going today and tomorrow and the next day—for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!

 34"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 35Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

Bold added for context...

Offline Tom

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Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2007, 12:18:57 AM »
The Scripture states that Gentiles prior to Christ were without God and without hope.

Why did Jesus teach in parables?

Hint: Read Mark 4:10-12
John 14:6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me."
Sometimes the Gospel is not presented clearly enough for the non-elect to reject it.

kevingaily

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Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2007, 06:58:20 AM »
Quote from: Tom;39399
The Scripture states that Gentiles prior to Christ were without God and without hope.

Why did Jesus teach in parables?

Hint: Read Mark 4:10-12


I didn't know the folks in Jerusalem were gentiles. I thought they were God's chosen people, ie. Jewish?

 

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