* *
316 Guests, 1 User

Author Topic: Are people elected to Hell?  (Read 11096 times)

st_michael

  • Guest
Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2007, 09:49:39 AM »
Quote from: kevingaily;39444
Obviously, God works in "those" churches as well, yes? :D
Amen!

Quote
In fact, we agree that on all sides there are issues.
Amen!

Where humanity is there will be issues...  :D

I was just curious!

Offline John Oscar

  • Bondservant of the Lord
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4765
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • Whitehall Assembly
Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2007, 12:20:33 PM »
It's like saying, "I hate politics."

If there are two people in a room, there are politics...lol
John O


kevingaily

  • Guest
Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2007, 12:34:04 PM »
Quote
Logically, I cannot stand-by a Bible only principle because that is not what Jesus taught and that is not how Chrisitianity existed the past 2,000 years since the Resurection! by st_michael

I just want to clarify something regarding Sola Scriptura. It is NOT implying there is no other authority. It is not saying we shouldn't obey our leaders either. Also, it is not saying God isn't using many things and people in our lives to communicate truth.

Now, what it IS saying is that all the above, whether parents, civil, military, or church leaders, their rules/laws/commands are not God breathed like in Scripture, and that Scripture is the ultimate authority that we must use as a litmus test to see if the man made teachings do harm to the full counsel of Scripture.

An example would be that nowhere in Scripture do we find that drinking out of the milk container is sin. Yet, if our parents told us not to, and we did anyway.... Yet if our parents told us to hate someone and we didn't then our disobedience would be justified as the ultimate authority is Scripture.

Luther did not wish a schism in the Church. He sought reform as a Catholic. Since the leaders did not wish to change, as likened to the pharisees in Jesus time, he was kicked out... The people who were already tired of the corruption left with him in droves. I can't tell you how much I long for there to have been a resolution to his problems rather than rebuff and excommunication. We would have still been one today. Now the world sees the fragmentation that was the result of it. Mind you, the counter reformation didn't help mend the fences either. I do think that the reformation, as we have it, should not have had to occur. I wish there was internal reform instead.

So I have a huge burden for the Body of Christ to walk in truth, and unity. But,  unfortunately, it is most likely too late(read: not going to happen) as the roots of difference are very deep indeed, and the issues have, for the most part, not been addressed.

All the above was said regarding the issue of sola scriptura, which I only brought up since you invoked it in your post. It has no bearing on what I said regarding loving the Catholics whom I have in my family or meet along the way.

**edit** I am not looking to debate sola scriptura, lol :D This would be the wrong thread anyways. I was just trying to define a term and express my desire for unity in Christ, not to debate!
« Last Edit: May 02, 2007, 03:27:20 PM by kevingaily »

kevingaily

  • Guest
Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2007, 12:43:40 PM »
Quote from: John Oscar;39453
It's like saying, "I hate politics."

If there are two people in a room, there are politics...lol


QFT - Even if they are in agreement they still will want to shore up on the fact that they agree :)

Offline Danny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2007, 01:07:11 PM »
God alone is sovereign enough to determine who will enter his kingdom -- and who won't.  Period.  No ifs, ands or buts.  Not even a maybe.  :noidea: He has His criteria and His decision is perfect.  Come, let us praise Him....



Is God sovereign enough to create people with the ability to choose?

Offline John Oscar

  • Bondservant of the Lord
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4765
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • Whitehall Assembly
Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2007, 01:19:27 PM »
The question at the end of your post negats the statement at the beginning.....
John O


kevingaily

  • Guest
Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2007, 02:44:53 PM »
Quote from: Danny;39469
God alone is sovereign enough to determine who will enter his kingdom -- and who won't.  Period.  No ifs, ands or buts.  Not even a maybe.  :noidea: He has His criteria and His decision is perfect.  Come, let us praise Him....



Is God sovereign enough to create people with the ability to choose?


Noone was debating God's sovereignty. In fact, we all agreed that He is as such. We were discussing His criteria as a point of interest not bashing anyone! :wub:

Offline Danny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2007, 06:14:17 PM »
Edit....Deleted message on second thought

Offline me again

  • Bought with a price...
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3680
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://theologyreview.com/
Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2007, 06:21:06 PM »
Quote from: Danny;39477
Edit....Deleted message on second thought
Does God manipulate our hearts to:
1. accomplish His will
2. cause some people to enter his kingdom
3. cause some people to go to hell?

Yes!!!! :eek:

God has even been known to harden people's hearts so that they are NOT receptive to Him!  Click here for proof! :eek:
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Danny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2007, 06:27:21 PM »
I am fascinated by the points on both sides of the Calvinism vs. Arminiasm debate.  However, isn't the bottom line that both choice and predestination are taught in Scripture?  Perhaps how they work together is beyond our finite ability to understand?

Offline me again

  • Bought with a price...
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3680
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://theologyreview.com/
Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2007, 06:42:19 PM »
Quote from: Danny;39480
I am fascinated by the points on both sides of the Calvinism vs. Arminiasm debate.  However, isn't the bottom line that both choice and predestination are taught in Scripture?  Perhaps how they work together is beyond our finite ability to understand?
I see it as a gigantic mathematical equation; the Lord knows every number and He know the outcome of every problem, from start to finish because he is:
1. the alpha and the omega and
2. He is the author and finisher of our faith.

What seems difficult to us (the mathematical equation, from the foundation of the creation to the end of time) is elementary to Him.  I may be using the following scripture out of context, but it's how I see it:   Hebrews 4:13
Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
[/color]
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Danny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2007, 09:45:00 AM »
Quote from: me again;39386
I've had several raging debates with people about this issue (not here at this forum, but in person).  Yes, there are people who are destined to go to hell and who never have a chance to enter the kingdom of heaven. God alone is sovereign enough to determine who will enter his kingdom -- and who won't.  Period.  No ifs, ands or buts.  Not even a maybe.  :noidea: He has His criteria and His decision is perfect.  Come, let us praise Him for His selections on who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.  Come, won't you join me in praising His perfection?  Or will you join with those who say that they will not serve Him if he is willing to send people to hell? :eek: :smack:



By saying there are people who are destined to go to hell - you are talking about every one of the billions of people who do not know Christ as their personal Lord and Savior correct?  That each one never had an opportunity to surrender to Christ?  What do you do with Romans 1:18-20?

Offline me again

  • Bought with a price...
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3680
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://theologyreview.com/
Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2007, 11:43:45 AM »
Quote from: Danny;39590
 What do you do with Romans 1:18-20?
I had to look up Romans 1:18-20 to try and get a better understanding of it.  I guess that it clearly demonstrates that humankind is judged by God's standards -- and not our own.  And at the end of the age, that fact will become abundantly clear to all.  Some people say that the creation of the universe and all the beauty that is within it isn't enough to demonstrate that the Creator is real, but Romans 1:18-20 seems to contradict that statement, much to the chagrin of unbelievers.  Unbelievers are free to reject all of creation, which is before our very eyes, as proof that God is real; but that is the evidence that will be used against them at the Great White Throne Judgment.  God's standards will be used and not humankind's standards!!!!

Quote from: Danny;39590
By saying there are people who are destined to go to hell - you are talking about every one of the billions of people who do not know Christ as their personal Lord and Savior correct?  
I may diverge from many other Christians in this area because I believe that it is possible for someone who has never heard of the Lord Jesus Christ to enter His kingdom.   Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life.  No man get's to the Father [to heaven] except by me."  I interpret His statement to mean that He alone determines who will enter His kingdom -- and it may include people who never heard the gospel.  It is exclusively Jesus' decision -- and who are we to say that He will not allow someone into His kingdom that never heard the gospel?

Regarding the many people who are hell bound without a chance of entering the kingdom of heaven: The scriptures seem to indicate that most people go to hell and not to heaven (Matt. 7:14).  However, the elect always hear His message when He sends it to them (John 10:27) and His sheep cannot perish -- ever (Luke 21:17-19) and (Acts 27:33-35) and (John 17:12).  John 17:12 seems to indicate that the "son of perdition" never had a chance -- because Judas Iscariot is not elect!!!  And I believe that there are people today who are not elect and who are predestined to go to hell.  There is nothing that they can do to change their fate.  :eek:

You're mileage may vary.  :what:
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Cop4Christ

  • Guest
Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2007, 10:14:08 PM »
This is one of my favorite verses
Jeremiah 9: 23 This is what the LORD says: "Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches, 24 but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight," declares the LORD .
Learning the Character of God from the scriptures is vital to interpretation.  Knowing where the free will of man comes into the picture is very important.  I say that if God says who goes into the kingdom, on what does he base his choice. I know you will say His sovereign will.  But if that is true where is the kindness or justice?  My God is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.  Your God does not have kindness or justice but that is due to not being a student of the scriptures.:preach:

Offline me again

  • Bought with a price...
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3680
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://theologyreview.com/
Re: Are people elected to Hell?
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2007, 11:14:42 PM »
Quote from: Cop4Christ;39596
This is one of my favorite verses
Jeremiah 9: 23 This is what the LORD says: "Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches, 24 but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight," declares the LORD .
Learning the Character of God from the scriptures is vital to interpretation.  Knowing where the free will of man comes into the picture is very important.  I say that if God says who goes into the kingdom, on what does he base his choice. I know you will say His sovereign will.  But if that is true where is the kindness or justice?  My God is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.  Your God does not have kindness or justice[/u] but that is due to not being a student of the scriptures.:preach:
Ahhhhhh but if Calvinism is correct, then will you still say that the Lord has no justice or kindness???? :smack: Come, let us praise Him together for his sovergn and righteous judgment! :snicker:
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

 

ads

Recent

Shoutbox

Last 5 Shouts:

 

me again

October 09, 2014, 02:15:06 PM
Quote
Religious Lie: "God only paid for sins until the next time you sin."
Forgiveness is available until we get to eternity and then our eternal fate is sealed. Right now, people are free to sin and repent; but there is no forgiveness of sin for the damned in hell.
 

Stan

October 05, 2014, 10:24:53 AM
"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
 

Stan

May 03, 2014, 01:12:35 PM
Lots of visitors..  easy to join,  easy to post...  come make some friends..  Play nice with others.
 

The Crusader

February 26, 2014, 04:30:18 PM
Religious Lie: "God only paid for sins until the next time you sin."
 

The Crusader

December 23, 2013, 09:38:53 AM
JUST A THINK ABOUT IT: Will you embrace the full meaning of Christmas? Jesus didn't die just so you could go to heaven. He came to give you life - His life; an abundant life free from guilt, condemnation, and slavery to both sins and religion. He came to bring a grace revolution to the world and tha

Show 50 latest

Our Amazon Store

Unique visitors since Dec 1, 2012

Flag Counter