* *
267 Guests, 0 Users

Author Topic: Question for Non-Calvinists  (Read 3792 times)

Offline Danny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Question for Non-Calvinists
« on: May 22, 2007, 11:59:58 AM »
Please allow me to preface my question with the following disclaimor:  This is not a "trap" question so that I can make a point - I am trying to study and learn in this area.

Question - Which of the five points of Calvinism do you take issue:  Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, Perseverance of the Saints.  Feel free to mix in Scripture with your responses.    

Calvinist brothers and sisters; feel free to jump in as well.:D

Thank you (in advance) for your responses.

Offline John Oscar

  • Bondservant of the Lord
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4765
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • Whitehall Assembly
Re: Question for Non-Calvinists
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2007, 01:42:57 PM »
Unconditional election and limited atonement are my two big sticking points.

I agree with Calvin partly in the limited atonement- I agree that the atonement is only applied to the saved.  I would argue based from John 3:16 but it is available to all....
John O


Offline me again

  • Bought with a price...
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3680
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://theologyreview.com/
Re: Question for Non-Calvinists
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2007, 06:53:30 PM »
Quote from: Danny;39598
Please allow me to preface my question with the following disclaimor:  This is not a "trap" question so that I can make a point - I am trying to study and learn in this area.

Question - Which of the five points of Calvinism do you take issue:  Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, Perseverance of the Saints.  Feel free to mix in Scripture with your responses.    

Calvinist brothers and sisters; feel free to jump in as well.:D

Thank you (in advance) for your responses.
I was chomping at the bit, believing that Calvinists (such as me) weren't allowed to respond to this thread!!! :snicker:

I don't take any issue with any of the 5 points of TULIP.  It all seems sooooo abundantly clear. :nod:
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Danny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Question for Non-Calvinists
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2007, 11:15:01 AM »
Quote from: John Oscar;39599
Unconditional election and limited atonement are my two big sticking points.

I agree with Calvin partly in the limited atonement- I agree that the atonement is only applied to the saved.  I would argue based from John 3:16 but it is available to all....



I take it that you do not believe John 3:16 is referring to the elect only.

Offline John Oscar

  • Bondservant of the Lord
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4765
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • Whitehall Assembly
Re: Question for Non-Calvinists
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2007, 11:25:31 AM »
No, or Jesus would have said the elect.  He didn't, He said "whosoever", and "the world", and I believe He means what He said.

By saying that Jesus only meant the elect is reading a theology into the bible, instead of allowing the bible to determine your theology.
John O


kevingaily

  • Guest
Re: Question for Non-Calvinists
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2007, 07:12:21 PM »
Just as he wept over Jerusalem when they were about to reject Him as their savior. He said he longed to gather them as a hen does her chicks, but they would not have him. Obviously, he could have made them, but he didn't and wept because of it. So folks aren't forced or coerced into being believers. That would kinda be like a shot-gun wedding, lol :D

As  I stated in the "elected to hell" thread, I believe he knows the whole path people will walk, even before they were born. He is sovereign in his foreknowledge. That does not mean they were forced, just he knew all the ways of all in the world and worked out his providential purposes with those decisions woven in the course of history.

Edit* Just as the unpardonable sin is almost unanimously agreed to be a rejection of the Spirit's move and deeming it as evil. Why? Because the move was to lead to a person coming to the Lord and his blood bought redemption. Rejecting that move means no acceptance and therefore condemnation. We know noone comes unless drawn to the Lord. Who does the drawing? The Spirit of God does. In fact, the Bible is full of people both saved and unsaved who do a disservice to the Spirit.

Quote
Acts 7: 51 You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

This scripture begs to agree that the Spirit of God can be resisted by an unbeliever thus resulting in them remaining thus.

Here is one where Christians are admonished not to resist:

Quote
Eph. 4: 30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

anothen

  • Guest
Re: Question for Non-Calvinists
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2010, 09:52:14 AM »
Limited Atonement and Election as Calvinist teach it, particular Election.

Offline saved

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2125
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://www.gerald285.com
Re: Question for Non-Calvinists
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2010, 01:53:42 PM »
Let me say that I do not claim to be a Calvinist because 1) I have never met or spoken to the man, 2) I have never read a book that he has written, I don;t even know if he ever wrote one, and 3) in studying some history about him if someone did not agree with him he either put them in prison or had them murdered, so I have no intention in studying his teachings. Now that being said I do not hold to "Unconditional Election" by itself. That is if I understand it correctly. The reason is that scripture does seem to teach it in some scriptures, but in others it also seems to teach that anyone can come not just a certain pre ordained few. So this leaves me with a dilemma. So I hold to both and do not try and explain either away. Just like I do not try and explain away the One God and yet He is a Trinity.
Isaiah 48:18,Oh that you had paid attention to my commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

 

ads

Recent

Shoutbox

Last 5 Shouts:

 

me again

October 09, 2014, 02:15:06 PM
Quote
Religious Lie: "God only paid for sins until the next time you sin."
Forgiveness is available until we get to eternity and then our eternal fate is sealed. Right now, people are free to sin and repent; but there is no forgiveness of sin for the damned in hell.
 

Stan

October 05, 2014, 10:24:53 AM
"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
 

Stan

May 03, 2014, 01:12:35 PM
Lots of visitors..  easy to join,  easy to post...  come make some friends..  Play nice with others.
 

The Crusader

February 26, 2014, 04:30:18 PM
Religious Lie: "God only paid for sins until the next time you sin."
 

The Crusader

December 23, 2013, 09:38:53 AM
JUST A THINK ABOUT IT: Will you embrace the full meaning of Christmas? Jesus didn't die just so you could go to heaven. He came to give you life - His life; an abundant life free from guilt, condemnation, and slavery to both sins and religion. He came to bring a grace revolution to the world and tha

Show 50 latest

Our Amazon Store

Unique visitors since Dec 1, 2012

Flag Counter