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Author Topic: Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus ?  (Read 4609 times)

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus ?
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2007, 04:16:11 PM »
Brother Davis seems to be an expert in eisegesis.
John O


Brotherdavid

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Re: Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus ?
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2007, 03:28:59 PM »
Yes Kevin, there is a distinction, but not separate persons or entities.
God is a Spirit..... The Holy Ghost is a Spirit, but there is but ONE God, One Spirit.... If you say Holy Ghost or Spirit of God- It's the same !!
That same Spirit was IN Christ, Jesus who was God IN flesh had two natures, a divine or heavenly (Spirit), and a flesh or eathly (Man) He was the God-Man.
Son of God, son of man. Jesus was completely dependent  on the divine nature (Spirit), that is why He prayed.
Jesus WAS God, 100%,but He was 100% man also, Colossians 2:9- For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
It is appearant that what you are calling a "plurality" are the dual natures of Christ. If your assumptions could be true.... where do you get Three ?
During any of the interactions between the Father and the Son..... What is the Holy Ghost doing, where is the Holy Ghost during this interaction ?
When is there interaction of the Father and the Holy Ghost ? Where is there interaction between Jesus and the Holy Ghost ? If the Holy Ghost over shadowed Mary, and Jesus was a child of the Holy Ghost, then was not the Holy Ghost Jesus' Father ?
John, as far as being an expert on eisegesis goes.... I'm not too familiar with those foreign cars.

Offline Tom

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Re: Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus ?
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2007, 04:17:11 PM »
Quote from: Brotherdavid;39861
The only point you've made is you obviously believe you're smarter, and therefore have a superior grasp of God's word than I do !!


While I do agree that Clint is smarter than you, I don't think that he believes that is the reason he believes he has a "superior grasp on God's Word" than you do.

The reason he should believe this is because for some reason or another, whether it be your inferior intellect or your inability to discern spirtitual things, you just don't get it.

The Trinity is clearly discussed by Jesus. John 16:5-15

"5": But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?

"6": But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.

"7": Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

"8": And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

"9": Of sin, because they believe not on me;

"10": Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

"11": Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

"12": I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

"13": Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

"14": He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

"15": All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

In this Scripture Christ speaks of himself, the Father and the Spirit. God in three persons. The Holy Trinity. A central truth of the Christian faith.

Maybe you should spend a little less time worrying about other peoples sin and a little more time asking God why he has chosen not to reveal even the most basic truths to you.
John 14:6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me."
Sometimes the Gospel is not presented clearly enough for the non-elect to reject it.

Offline Tom

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Re: Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus ?
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2007, 08:17:56 AM »
You give yourself far too much credit Dave.

The catholics do not hold the patent on the Trinity. The fact is Christians, that is Christians who have followed valid forms of the faith, not adherents to hillbilly cults, have proclaimed the clear biblical truth of the Trinity for centuries.

What "church" is it that you attend Dave? And, do they handle poisonous snakes?
John 14:6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me."
Sometimes the Gospel is not presented clearly enough for the non-elect to reject it.

kevingaily

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Re: Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus ?
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2007, 10:07:41 AM »
Quote from: Tom;39935
You give yourself far too much credit Dave.

The catholics do not hold the patent on the Trinity. The fact is Christians, that is Christians who have followed valid forms of the faith, not adherents to hillbilly cults, have proclaimed the clear biblical truth of the Trinity for centuries.

What "church" is it that you attend Dave? And, do they handle poisonous snakes?

More than that, even almost two thousand years, as even early church leaders and writers have said so.

http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/trinitydefended.htm
« Last Edit: June 21, 2007, 11:09:12 AM by kevingaily »

Offline Tom

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Re: Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus ?
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2007, 01:22:37 PM »
So when you were baptised, were you baptised in the name of Jesus only or were you baptised as the Lord instructed in Mathew 28:19? "In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

Why didn't Christ just say baptise them in my Name?
John 14:6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me."
Sometimes the Gospel is not presented clearly enough for the non-elect to reject it.

Brotherdavid

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Re: Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus ?
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2007, 02:35:51 PM »
Jesus "only" is a belittling term for our God and Savior !!
You are right in saying IN THE NAME..... Father is NOT a name, Son is NOT a name, and Holy Spirit is NOT a name !! These are titles, and when Jesus gave us these instuctions, there was NO water there, and they were NOT baptizing; But, in Acts 2, Acts 8, Acts 16, and Acts 19 the Apostle's carried out Jesus' command..... Luke 24:47-And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached "in his name" among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.This command was indeed carried out by Apostle Peter on the day of Pentecost when he preached to the Jews: And Peter said unto them, Repent, and "be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ" for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The Apostle's knew who Jesus was, that in HIM dwelleth ALL the fulness of the Godhead bodily.(not 1/3, or 2/3/ but ALL) Jesus is the Father, Jesus is the Son, Jesus is the Holy Ghost.... these are ONE !!

Offline Tom

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Re: Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus ?
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2007, 02:48:47 PM »
Yes, one God in three persons. The Holy Trinity. And in fact Father , Son and Holy Spirit all are names.

Scripture clearly teaches it. Just because you can't understand it doesn't make it false.
John 14:6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me."
Sometimes the Gospel is not presented clearly enough for the non-elect to reject it.

Offline Tom

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Re: Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus ?
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2007, 02:56:36 PM »
Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
John 14:6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me."
Sometimes the Gospel is not presented clearly enough for the non-elect to reject it.

Brotherdavid

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Re: Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus ?
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2007, 07:47:31 AM »
Since when does "us" mean Three Separate Persons ?? You're right, I DON'T understand this !!
Father is NOT a name, it's a title, Son is NOT a name, it's a title, and Holy Spirit is NOT a name, it's also a title.
In spite of all your straw man arguments,...... you still lack explicit Bible Scripture; No where does the Bible explicitly teach God In Three Separate persons !! A triune God, or a trinity, I certainly would think that if this doctrine were true that you could give just ONE  scripture that explicitly states this.Tom, I really wasn't aware that Holy Ghost was a name, is this your own revelation ?

Offline Tom

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Re: Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus ?
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2007, 09:00:59 AM »
Quote from: Brotherdavid;40068
Tom, I really wasn't aware that Holy Ghost was a name, is this your own revelation ?

Are you serious, when I first read this I thought he's putting me on. It is a testament to how simple computer usage has become. Someone who can make a statement such as the one you made which I listed in quotes is able to attain access to the internet.  
No, its not my own revelation. It's something that anyone with a fundamental grasp of the English language can determine. Say someone who passed 4th grade English.

I realize you don't understand it and you are just trying to get by the best you can with what God gave you to work with. Anyone that has even the slightest understanding can read Scripture such as John 14 and clearly see the 3 persons of God listed and explained by Christ himself.

The fact is you belong to a cult and they teach damnable heresy.

Maybe you can explain why if the Holy Spirit is not a person, or a name as you say, how can blasphemy against Him be the unforgiveable sin? Jesus said in Mathew 12:31-32 that if someone spoke against Him they would be forgiven but if they spoke against the Holy Spirit they would not.

You also have not mentioned why Jesus commanded that they baptise in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Do you think this Scripture is wrong?

You asked why the Bible does not just come out and declare the "Trinity by name. In fact it does speak clearly of them but if the message is too clouded for you perhaps the answer to your question can be found in Mark 4:11-12 And he said to them, "To you it has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, so that they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven."
John 14:6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me."
Sometimes the Gospel is not presented clearly enough for the non-elect to reject it.

Offline Tom

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Re: Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus ?
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2007, 09:08:28 AM »
Quote from: Brotherdavid;40068
Since when does "us" mean Three Separate Persons ??


Well, unless your schitzophrenic it doesn't mean one person.
John 14:6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me."
Sometimes the Gospel is not presented clearly enough for the non-elect to reject it.

Brotherdavid

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Re: Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus ?
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2007, 11:08:15 AM »
It's so interesting how the blind lead the blind !! One thing is for sure, like I've said before, when most trinitarians cannot show their teachings according to Scripture, they use weak assumptions. When a person is so set in false doctrine that they believe "us " says THREE, that's really pulling rabbits out of hats ! I've seen the same behavior out of many professing Christians when they can't use the Scriptures to prove their man-made doctrines they resort stone throwing as in insults, put downs and name calling. When all else fails call someone a "heretic" or a member of a hillbilly cult, capp on their English or lack of, call them a legalist, or even a snake handler etc. This certainly confirms the fact that many people are hopelessly confused, therefore hide in the false safety of the crowd. One Lord, one faith, one baptism Eph 4:5
Deut 6:4- Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.
Our one God has many roles, functions,manifestations, or offices but one God

kevingaily

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Re: Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus ?
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2007, 12:34:11 PM »
Quote from: Brotherdavid;40073
It's so interesting how the blind lead the blind !! One thing is for sure, like I've said before, when most trinitarians cannot show their teachings according to Scripture, they use weak assumptions. When a person is so set in false doctrine that they believe "us " says THREE, that's really pulling rabbits out of hats ! I've seen the same behavior out of many professing Christians when they can't use the Scriptures to prove their man-made doctrines they resort stone throwing as in insults, put downs and name calling. When all else fails call someone a "heretic" or a member of a hillbilly cult, capp on their English or lack of, call them a legalist, or even a snake handler etc. This certainly confirms the fact that many people are hopelessly confused, therefore hide in the false safety of the crowd. One Lord, one faith, one baptism Eph 4:5
Deut 6:4- Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.
Our one God has many roles, functions,manifestations, or offices but one God

Yes, One God. One God who himself choose to be revealed in three persons. God's mind is not like a human. He is everywhere all the time. He is not simplistic as you try to make him. The oneness of the threesome is so mind-boggling that it sounds crazy to a mortal, yet God choose to say he is three. This threesome in their oneness are completely adjoined in so much as they seem interchangeable, yet move and work in their own functions.

Stop thinking like a human. You are trying to create God in man's image, but he created us in HIS image. He calls a married couple one even though it is two people.  so he has been faithful to show the plurality of his oneness by showing it in marriage. Which is what? Say it with me IN HIS IMAGE.

Quote
Gen 1: 26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

 27 So God created man in his own image,
       in the image of God he created him;
       male and female he created them.



You err because you don't see the whole counsel of God in Scripture. You just gather certain "proof texts" and ignore the ones that don't fit your theology. If God said let us make man....  and then made two, male and female, then he is showing plurality. Perhaps we should edit this verse, as well as the others I gave earlier, out of the brotherdavid's new revised edition of scripture? Then it will be easy to defend your view after deleting any unwanted pesky verses which seem to contradict your theology...
« Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 10:21:31 PM by kevingaily »

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus ?
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2007, 04:25:24 PM »
Brother David,

I don't think that anything we say will dissuade you from your belief in oneness theology, so we will just allow the scriptures posted empowered by the Holy Spirit to lead you in all truth.

However, this is a forum governed by Evangelical Christian's, whose belief in the doctrine of the trinity is central to their theology. You are therefore being officially asked not to promote your oneness theology on this website. If you refuse to comply with this, you will be banned from the site.

We truly value your input, and would not want to take this step, but at the same time, we have to remain true to the historical understandings of our faith as revealed to us in the Word of God and in the creeds of the church.

Thank you in advance for your understanding.

Love and blessings
John O


 

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