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Author Topic: Heaven  (Read 2771 times)

Offline Danny

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Heaven
« on: November 22, 2007, 08:10:18 AM »
Perhaps someone could straighten me out on this.  When Christ returns there will be a new heaven and new earth.  Does this mean that in eternity, we will have access to heaven and earth?  Are we going to be on earth (new earth) for eternity?  Or, after Christ reigns for a thousand years, will all believers be in heaven?

Online John Oscar

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2007, 09:50:13 AM »
Depends on your eschatology.  The differences between pre/post/millennial beliefs are pretty profound.

What's your denomination?  I could probably get you a link of what they believe.
John O


Offline me again

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2007, 12:30:48 PM »
The Lord once said to me, "You will enter the kingdom of heaven." Does that mean that I'll be limited to the celestial city (aka the New Jeresulem) and that I'll never leave -- or does it mean that I'll freely flow throughout the bounds of His kingdom, which is throughout the universe?  I speculate the latter.  :eek:
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Danny

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2007, 09:27:25 AM »
Quote from: John Oscar;41199
Depends on your eschatology.  The differences between pre/post/millennial beliefs are pretty profound.

What's your denomination?  I could probably get you a link of what they believe.


John Oscar;

I belong to a Southern Baptist Church.

Offline Danny

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2007, 09:29:12 AM »
Quote from: me again;41200
The Lord once said to me, "You will enter the kingdom of heaven." Does that mean that I'll be limited to the celestial city (aka the New Jeresulem)[/i] and that I'll never leave -- or does it mean that I'll freely flow throughout the bounds of His kingdom, which is throughout the universe?  I speculate the latter.  :eek:


Heaven is "the New Jerusalem".  Does that mean that "Heaven" will be located here on earth?  You can see that I am a bit confused.

Online John Oscar

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2007, 09:55:32 AM »
The SBC pretty much believes the same we do (Assemblies of God).

Here are the scripture reference from our last few fundemental truths-

13. The Blessed Hope
The resurrection of those who have fallen asleep in Christ and their translation together with those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord is the imminent and blessed hope of the church.

1 Thessalonians 4:16,17 [KJV/NIV]
Romans 8:23 [KJV/NIV]
Titus 2:13 [KJV/NIV]
1 Corinthians 15:51,52 [KJV/NIV]
(TOP)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

14. The Millennial Reign of Christ
The second coming of Christ includes the rapture of the saints, which is our blessed hope, followed by the visible return of Christ with His saints to reign on earth for one thousand years.

Zechariah 14:5 [KJV/NIV]
Matthew 24:27 [KJV/NIV]
Matthew 24:30 [KJV/NIV]
Revelation 1:7 [KJV/NIV]
Revelation 19:11-14 [KJV/NIV]
Revelation 20:1-6 [KJV/NIV]
This millennial reign will bring the salvation of national Israel,

Ezekiel 37:21,22 [KJV/NIV]
Zephaniah 3:19,20 [KJV/NIV]
Romans 11:26,27 [KJV/NIV]
and the establishment of universal peace.

Isaiah 11:6-9 [KJV/NIV]
Psalms 72:3-8 [KJV/NIV]
Micah 4:3,4 [KJV/NIV]
(TOP)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

15. The Final Judgment
There will be a final judgment in which the wicked dead will be raised and judged according to their works. Whosoever is not found written in the Book of Life, together with the devil and his angels, the beast and the false prophet, will be consigned to the everlasting punishment in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

Matthew 25:46 [KJV/NIV]
Mark 9:43-48 [KJV/NIV]
Revelation 19:20 [KJV/NIV]
Revelation 20:11-15 [KJV/NIV]
Revelation 21:8 [KJV/NIV]
(TOP)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

16. The New Heavens and the New Earth
"We, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness."

2 Peter 3:13 [KJV/NIV]
Revelation 21 [KJV/NIV]
Revelation 22 [KJV/NIV]
John O


Offline Danny

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2007, 11:58:59 AM »
Thank you so much for that response!

Forgive me in this quest for clarity:  Regarding the phrase "new heavens and new earth"; does new heavens refer to the sky, stars etc... or is it referring to a specific place in which God dwells apart from the earth.  In other words, when we say that we are going to heaven, are we referring to a new and better earth; the New Jerusalem, or a different place in which we will go after the New Millenium?  

Thank you again.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 08:16:21 AM by Danny »

Offline me again

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2007, 03:24:02 PM »
Quote from: Danny;41276
Regarding the phrase "new heavens and new earth"; does new heavens refer to the sky, stars etc... or is it referring to a specific place in which God dwells apart from the earth.  In other words, when we say that we are going to heaven, are we referring to a new and better earth; the New Jerusalem, or a different place in which we will go after the New Millenium?  
I think that the bible can refer to several different heavens, depending on the context of the scripture:
  • The heavens can be the sky above where the birds fly.
  • The heavens can refer to the stars above, as in outer space.
  • It can refer to a specific place where believers go, such as in Corinthians 12:2 where the Apostle Paul describes it as the third heaven and as Paradise: " I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven. And I know how such a man--whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows-- was caught up into  Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.
  • And I guess it can refer to the New Jeraselum.
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Danny

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2007, 07:54:49 AM »
Quote from: Danny;41276
Thank you so much for that response!

Forgive me in this quest for clarity:  Regarding the phrase "new heavens and new earth"; does new heavens refer to the sky, stars etc... or is it referring to a specific place in which God dwells apart from the earth.  In other words, when we say that we are going to heaven, are we referring to a new and better earth; the New Jerusalem, or a different place in which we will go after the New Millenium?  
Thank you again.


Or is it something that we can speculate on, but not be sure?

Offline me again

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2007, 11:01:14 AM »
Quote from: Danny;41289
Or is it something that we can speculate on, but not be sure?
The Jehovah Witnesses have some very specific teachings on this subject.  Have you ever studied their teachings? :madgrin: :eek:
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Quasar

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2007, 12:38:30 AM »
Quote from: Danny;41187
Perhaps someone could straighten me out on this.  When Christ returns there will be a new heaven and new earth.  Does this mean that in eternity, we will have access to heaven and earth?  Are we going to be on earth (new earth) for eternity?  Or, after Christ reigns for a thousand years, will all believers be in heaven?




Danny,

Read Jn.14:1-4 and 28 to see what Jesus said about it and where He will be taking us when He returns for all of us who belong to Him - to be with Him and our Father in heaven.

This event is described by Paul in 1 Thes.4:14-18, when those of us who are left here on earth at His coming, meet Him in the clouds of the Sky, with all those who have died in Him previously, over the past 2,000 years plus.  Where we will all proceed with Him to our Father in heaven, as seen in Jn.14:28.

This event will take place before the 70th Week/seven years of tribulation begins, as recorded in 2 Thes;2:1-8.


The following is a chronological order of events yet to take place:

The Rapture of the Church    http://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/v/showthread.php?t=70158
 
The timing of the rapture of the church and the entree of the antichrist on the scene is determined as follows:

1. Jesus referred to the "abomination that causes desolation" in Mt.24:15, spoken of by the prophet Daniel, which is found in Dan.9:27, in the OT.

2. Dan.9:27 represents the prophetic 70th and final week [7 years] of God's decree upon the destiny of Israel. We know it is the final week [7 years] from Jesus testimony in Mt.24:15, when He made reference to the "abomination that causes desolation that the "he" of Dan.9:27 will cause to take place "in the middle of the [70th and final] week [7 years]."

3. The three "he's" in the vs of Dan.9:27 are all one and each the very same person, who is the antichrist.

4. The above Scriptures establish the fact that the 70th and final week [7 years] of God's decree upon Israel, is that it is also the "Day of the Lord," and the 7 years of tribulation the Prophet Jeremiah referred to in 30:7, as "Jacob's Trouble." All of which has to do with Israel and nothing whatsoever about the Church of Jesus Christ.

5. The Church is tied prophetically into the above in one way: The "He" of Dan.9:27 who "confirms a covenant" with Israel for one week [7 years], is the antichrist, and the very same person the apostle Paul refers to as "the man of lawlessness" in 2 Thes.2:3 and the "lawless one," in vs 8.

6. The apostle Paul writes in 2 Thes.2:1-3: "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered unto Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord has already come. Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day will not come until the ["apostasia" (Gr)] departure [The rapture of the Church from the Transliteration from the original Gr. ms] occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.


7. Therefore, the Scriptures found in Dan.9:27 and again in 2 Thes.3, refer to the fact that Israel must go through the coming tribulation. But the "departure," or the rapture of the Church, will take place immediately preceding the revealing of the antichrist, who triggers the 70th and final week [7years of tribulation] of God's decree upon Israel.

8. The apostle Paul repeats the above sceanario in 2 Thes.2:3 again in vss 7-8, when he wrote: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who no holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming.

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the One Body of Christ, His Church. Meaning the Church is to be raptured before the antichrist is revealed.

9. The above Scriptures are crystal clear that the rapture of the Church takes place before the 7 years of tribulation begin and when the antichrist will be revealed who triggers the beginning of it, following the rapture of the Church.

Therefore, in the vision Jesus gave pertaining to the apostle John being called into heaven by the voice that sounds like a trumpet, is in perfect timing with those events that will take place, when Jesus returns to rapture His Church. Though Jesus did not specifically say so, it clearly infers refernce to His Church going to heaven before the tribulation begins as has been clearly prophecied in other places in His Word. Including Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

Therefore, the first seal of Rev.6 opens the beginning of the tribulation with the very same person found in Dan.9:27 and 2 Thes.2:3 and 8, with the rider on the white horse, who triggers it, the antichrist! Since the Church has been raptured, followed by the revealing of the antichrist as the rider of the white horse in the very first seal of the tribulation, the Church cannot be the Great Multitude of Rev.7!


Jesus second coming to the earth takes place, as found in Rev.`19:11-16. The 1,000 year [Millennial] kingdom reign of Christ will begin after the above tribulation is over and Christ defeats the antichrist, the false prophet, throws them into the lake of fire, and defeats their armies, covered in Rev.17-20.

Satan will be chained and thrown into the Abyss for 1,000 years, in Rev.20:1-3.  The first resurrection will then take place, in Rev.20:4-6.  All of those who participate in the first resurrection will be priests of God and of Christ and reign with Him for 1,000 years, in His Millennial kingdom here on the earth.  

Then Satan is released, leads the nations by his deceitfulness again, collecting an army of millions that he leads against God's people in Jerusalem which God destroys with fire from heaven and Satan is thrown into the lake of fire, in Rev.20:10.

The second resurrection of the wiced will take place along with the great white thone judgement.  When death and Hades [Sheol and Hell] are thrown into the lake of fire along with all of those whose names are not found written in the book of life, in Rev.20:15.

Then, this heaven and earth will "pass away" [Be destroyed by fire, in 2 Pet.3:7], and God creates an all new heaven and earth, in Rev.21:1-5.

Hope this answers you question.  Sorry it took so much space to do so.

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2007, 08:27:25 AM »
Quote from: Danny;41289
Or is it something that we can speculate on, but not be sure?



You can find the answer to that in Rev.21:1-27, Danny.

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Danny

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2008, 07:34:49 AM »
Thank you very much Quasar!  This has been very helpful.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2008, 12:14:33 AM »
Quote from: Danny;41572
Thank you very much Quasar!  This has been very helpful.



My pleasure, Danny.

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

 

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