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Author Topic: Who is the Father of Jesus ?  (Read 3273 times)

Brotherdavid

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Who is the Father of Jesus ?
« on: February 07, 2008, 10:32:14 AM »
Whom do you say the Father of Jesus is ?

Offline me again

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Re: Who is the Father of Jesus ?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2008, 07:17:51 AM »
Here are some bible quotes:
  • No man knows the Father, except he to whom Jesus reveals him.
  • No man can get to the Father, except through Jesus.
  • Jesus thanked the Father that He (Jesus) didn't lose any of the sheep that the Father gave to him.
I guess we'll have to wait until we get to heaven to fully understand the correlation between the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.  It's beyond my comprehension. :noidea: Facinating topic though! :madgrin:
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Brotherdavid

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Re: Who is the Father of Jesus ?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2008, 07:58:05 AM »
The Bible says that Mary was over shadowed by the Holy Ghost.....
Another place the Bible says that she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
When Jesus prayed in Gethsemane and said, Father take this cup from me......
Or when Jesus said when He hung on the cross, Father, forgive them for they know not..... The Word says that God is a Spirit;
Which Spirit Jesus was praying to ?: 1) The Father-- "the first person"
                                                                    -OR-
                                                    2)The Holy Ghost-- "the third person"

I say the Holy Ghost and the Father are ONE, and there is ONE Spirit.....
Notice how there is NEVER any conversation between the Father and the Holy Ghost or between the Son and the Holy Ghost.... If there truely IS three distinct persons or personallities, who are equal with one another -- Show in scripture where this "silent partner" Speaks to the Father.... or where the Holy Ghost speaks to the Son.
If you'll notice many times in scripture there is dialogue between the Father and the Son
but this does not prove multiple persons, wills, or pesonallities, It simply shows the dual nature of Jesus, Son of God, Son of man- The God-man, 100% God/ 100% man.

st_michael

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Re: Who is the Father of Jesus ?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2008, 03:53:12 PM »
Quote from: Brotherdavid;41668
The Bible says that Mary was over shadowed by the Holy Ghost.....
Another place the Bible says that she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
When Jesus prayed in Gethsemane and said, Father take this cup from me......
Or when Jesus said when He hung on the cross, Father, forgive them for they know not..... The Word says that God is a Spirit;
Which Spirit Jesus was praying to ?: 1) The Father-- "the first person"
                                                                    -OR-
                                                    2)The Holy Ghost-- "the third person"

I say the Holy Ghost and the Father are ONE, and there is ONE Spirit.....
Notice how there is NEVER any conversation between the Father and the Holy Ghost or between the Son and the Holy Ghost.... If there truely IS three distinct persons or personallities, who are equal with one another -- Show in scripture where this "silent partner" Speaks to the Father.... or where the Holy Ghost speaks to the Son.
If you'll notice many times in scripture there is dialogue between the Father and the Son
but this does not prove multiple persons, wills, or pesonallities, It simply shows the dual nature of Jesus, Son of God, Son of man- The God-man, 100% God/ 100% man.



The Holy Spirit comes forth from the relationship of the Father and Son...  The Father and Son hold nothing back in giving to each other... this type of Love produces the Holy Spirit...  Since this type of Love is infinite... because God the Father and God the Son are Infinite and the Love they give to each other is Infinite the Holy Spirit is Infinite and is equal to the two infinite person's...  God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit...  God is Love!  Love is a trinity...  a person to be loved....  a person doing the loving  and the result of that loving act...

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Who is the Father of Jesus ?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2008, 09:59:25 AM »
Quote from: st_michael;41673
. this type of Love produces the Holy Spirit...  Since this type of Love is infinite...


Hi Michael!

Are you saying that the Holy Spirit is a by-product of the Father and Son's relationship.  I only ask because if that is the case, it diminishes His personhood....
John O


Brotherdavid

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Re: Who is the Father of Jesus ?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2008, 11:57:29 AM »
Michael,
That's a very interesting explaination, but where are your scriptures to prove this ??
Doesn't the Holy Ghost love the Son and the Father equally ? Being "equal" with another means that anything that one person can do, so can the other, so where is the equality ? What about the ability to speak ? Show scripture verses.....
The Bible clearly states that God is love, but NEVER that love is a trinity or even God is a trinity. So who is the Father of Jesus ?

st_michael

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Re: Who is the Father of Jesus ?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2008, 10:58:01 AM »
Quote from: John Oscar;41675
Hi Michael!

Are you saying that the Holy Spirit is a by-product of the Father and Son's relationship.  I only ask because if that is the case, it diminishes His personhood....


No more than Jeus is the By-product of the Father...  Jesus is the exact Image of the Father...  does this mean the Father was before Jesus and therefore Jesus is less Divine than the Father... No...

In order for us to begin to explain the Trinity we are starting out at a huge disadvantage... we think linear...  This before this... and so on...

however, God (the Trinity is infinite) and is not linear... what is, was and will be is always NOW...

Since God the Father thinks...  and we know he thinks of himself from Scripture... his thought of himself is PERFECT...  this THOUGHT of himself is a PERFECT IMAGE of himself lacking in nothing... Since God the Father is Infinite and His Thoughts are infinite his Image of himself is infinite and therefore has ALWAYS been...  Christian's call this thought JESUS...

Since both the Father and his perfect image of himself (JESUS) lack nothing (they are infinite) they GIVE 100% of each other back to the other...  this complete Sharing of each other prdouces a "state of Lovingness within the Divine Nature" (Frank Sheen, Theology and Sanity).  Since this Acto towards each other is infinite this "state of Lovingness" is also infinite and comes forth from the infinite giving the Father and Son do for each other... This "state of Lovingness" is understood as the "Holy Spirit".  

The Father's perfect thought of himself is Jesus
2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.


The Holy Spirit comes forth from the Father and Jesus
   Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever—

John 14:26
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John 20:22
And with that he [Jesus] breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.


Offline Quasar

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Re: Who is the Father of Jesus ?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2008, 10:52:11 AM »
Quote from: Brotherdavid;41668
The Bible says that Mary was over shadowed by the Holy Ghost.....
Another place the Bible says that she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
When Jesus prayed in Gethsemane and said, Father take this cup from me......
Or when Jesus said when He hung on the cross, Father, forgive them for they know not..... The Word says that God is a Spirit;
Which Spirit Jesus was praying to ?: 1) The Father-- "the first person"
                                                                    -OR-
                                                    2)The Holy Ghost-- "the third person"

I say the Holy Ghost and the Father are ONE, and there is ONE Spirit.....
Notice how there is NEVER any conversation between the Father and the Holy Ghost or between the Son and the Holy Ghost.... If there truely IS three distinct persons or personallities, who are equal with one another -- Show in scripture where this "silent partner" Speaks to the Father.... or where the Holy Ghost speaks to the Son.
If you'll notice many times in scripture there is dialogue between the Father and the Son
but this does not prove multiple persons, wills, or pesonallities, It simply shows the dual nature of Jesus, Son of God, Son of man- The God-man, 100% God/ 100% man.



Q:  Your assessment of the description of God is a Scriptural fact, Brotherdavid:

The problem most people have with it is the smothering effect the triune theology has had on people examining the Scriptural facts about it on their own.  The following is to amplify what you belive, with Scriptural support.

1. According to the testimony of Jesus, John and Paul, God is Spirit, in Jn.1:18, 4:24; 2 Cor.3:17-18; Col..1:15 and 1 Jn.4:12.

2. With that having been Scripturally determined, there is no option to the fact that God, who is Spirit, is also Holy, according to His own testimony in Lev.11:44-45 as well as in 1 Pet.1:15-16. Therefore, God is the Holy Spirit!

3. Therefore, according to the Scriptures, there is also no option to the fact that God, who is the Holy Spirit, is also the Father of the incarnated Jesus, according to Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35, fulfilling His own prophecy in Ps.2:7.

4. The term "Father," is nothing more than one of a number of titles for God, in the very same way all of us who have children, who call us "father," [Or dad] which proper protocol in all such circumstances. That those of your belief system, who believe the term "Father" justifies calling God, who is the Holy Spirit and Father, two different persons, is the epitome of nonsense!

Therefore, without going any further, such as the origins of the pre-incarnated spirit of Jesus, the triune belief system is busted. Since the Scriptures confirm the fact that God, the Holy Spirit, is also the Father, one person, not two!

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

st_michael

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Re: Who is the Father of Jesus ?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2008, 12:25:13 PM »
Quote from: Quasar;41684

Therefore, without going any further, such as the origins of the pre-incarnated spirit of Jesus, the triune belief system is busted. Since the Scriptures confirm the fact that God, the Holy Spirit, is also the Father, one person, not two!

I guess Jesus was wrong to tell his Apostle's to Baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...  and Quasar is correct...  and Jesus should have said... Baptize in the name of the Father and the Son...  no need for Jesus to say Holy Spirit since "the Holy Spirit, is also the Father"  :dizzy:

Scripture clearly teaches the Trinity...  Early Christians taught the Trinity and affirmed in many time in many generations...  This is a core belief in Christianity...  one that cannot be change if you chose to be called Christian...  It maybe difficult for you to understand...  yet Jesus talked about the Holy Spirit as a different "person" then the Father...  yet he equaled the Holy Spirit to God...  

Peace in your faith Journey...

Offline Quasar

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Re: Who is the Father of Jesus ?
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2008, 12:31:08 PM »
Quote from: st_michael;41686
I guess Jesus was wrong to tell his Apostle's to Baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...  and Quasar is correct...  and Jesus should have said... Baptize in the name of the Father and the Son...  no need for Jesus to say Holy Spirit since "the Holy Spirit, is also the Father"  :dizzy:

Scripture clearly teaches the Trinity...  Early Christians taught the Trinity and affirmed in many time in many generations...  This is a core belief in Christianity...  one that cannot be change if you chose to be called Christian...  It maybe difficult for you to understand...  yet Jesus talked about the Holy Spirit as a different "person" then the Father...  yet he equaled the Holy Spirit to God...  

Peace in your faith Journey...



Q:  That's exactly the point!  Jesus never made that statement as I have given you the Scriptural reasons why.  Jesus knew first of all, God, the Holy Spirit is His Father, a title for God, not another "person."  In the second place, the Scriptures fully support our being baptized into the one body of Christ, who then gives us the Holy Spirit as found in Acts 38 and Eph.1:13-14 as prophecied by John the Baptist in Mt.3:11.

Alluding to 'difficulties for me to understand,' is nothing but your personal opinion.  I was a trinitarian for 45 years until I tired of attempting to equate what is clearly from the minds of men and cannot be supported by Scripture in any way.  Since then, I have made an in depth study over the next 25 years.  It's time to face the Scriptural facts, any way you slice it, God is Spirit, the Father is Spirit, and of course, the Holy Spirit is Spirit - but they are only one Spirit, which does not compute into two or three "persons."

Don't try making me out a heretic when it was done by others to support their belief in a triune theology that does not nor ever did exist.

God bless,

Quasar
« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 11:57:24 PM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

st_michael

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Re: Who is the Father of Jesus ?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2008, 02:56:19 PM »
Quote from: Quasar;41687
Q:  
Don't try making me out a heretic when it was done by others to support their belief in a triune theology that does not nor ever did exist.

You seem to do a good enough job at that without my input...  :loco:

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Who is the Father of Jesus ?
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2008, 11:25:19 PM »
Quote from: Quasar;41687
Q:  That's exactly the point!  Jesus never made that statement as I have given you the Scriptural reasons why.  


Then you must have forgotten to read the last chapter of Matthew, and/or most of the Upper Room discourse in John.

Biblical truth does not have to make sense for our meager human brains for it to still be truth.  In fact, the bible says that the entire Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing.
John O


Brotherdavid

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Re: Who is the Father of Jesus ?
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2008, 03:20:50 PM »
The last chapter of Matthew (also refered to as the great commission).......

Matthew 28:19 (King James Version)
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Jesus was instructing here, He was NOT actually baptizing. All the Apostles knew who Jesus really was !! Notice Jesus said: baptizing "In The NAME !!", Singular.....Not NAMES !! He said: In The Name Of The Father, and the Apostles knew the Father's Name !! He said : In The Name Of The Son, and the Apostles knew the Name Of The Son !! He said: In the Name Of The Holy Ghost, the Apostles also knew the Name Of The Holy Ghost...... JESUS !!

Offline Quasar

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Re: Who is the Father of Jesus ?
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2008, 10:21:35 AM »
[/I]
Quote from: st_michael;41692
You seem to do a good enough job at that without my input...  :loco:


Quote by John Oscar:

>>>Then you must have forgotten to read the last chapter of Matthew, and/or most of the Upper Room discourse in John.

Biblical truth does not have to make sense for our meager human brains for it to still be truth. In fact, the bible says that the entire Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing.<<<


Q:  There are many who are still deluded by the Catholic dogma of describing God in terms of three, which they were fed by some of the church fathers, not by the Word of God, which in no way, is it found there!

Mt.28:19 is an additive, which would never come from the lips of Jesus, who knew better.  He not only knew, God, who is the Holy Spirit, is also His Father, the same title all of us men who have children!  All baptisms by the apostles were done as recorded in Acts 2:38, with reference by Peter to belief in Jesus, followed by the spiritual baptism by Jesus with the Holy Spirit.  As is also clearly delineated in Eph.1:13-14.  Confirming Mt.3:11; Mk.1:33; Lk.3:16; Jn.1:33, 20:21-22; Acts 2:1-3 [The Holy Spirit through Jesus, not another person!]; 1 Jn.3:24 and 1 Jn.4:13.

The same fraud is found in 1 Jn.5:7, which is a late additive [11th century] that does not appear in the more reliable mss.  But rather Scriptural dilution by unscrupupous Catholic scribes to reinforce their triune godhead dogma.

There are no problems for us, with "meager human brains" to fully understand the proper description of God, by simply reading and understanding His Word, the Holy Bible.

Jesus said, God is Spirit, in Jn.4:24; John wrote, no one has ever seen God, in Jn.1:18 and 1 Jn.4:12.  Paul wrote Jesus is the image of the invisible God in Col.1:15.  He also wrote, the Lord is the Spirit, in 2 Cor.3:17-18.  The Spirit of God also testified about Himself, that He is Holy, in Lev.11:44-45 and repeated by Peter in 1 Pet.1:15-16.  Therefore, there is no option to the Scriptural facts that the one and only God, [Isa.43:10 and 44:6] is the Holy Spirit.

With the above established through the Scriptures, there is no option to the fact that the Holy Spirit is also the Father, according to Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35.

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

 

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