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Author Topic: Is God the ultimate puppet Master?  (Read 8290 times)

Offline Tom

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Re: Is God the ultimate puppet Master?
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2006, 12:32:05 PM »
An Arminian wouldn't agree that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is eternal. They're only saved as log as they meet some non-descript standard.

Where the double talk of their theology begins is that they state that salvation is only accomplished by God enabling a person to accept Him but they can resist it. So, Arminians are never really dead in their tresspasses and sins they are just really sick and there is enough good in them to be able to accept God if he enables the to do so, but, if they are really depraved they can resist it.

In other words, it is catholicism, minus infant baptism, confession, veneration of the saints and a celibate priesthood, ( or what appears to be a celibate priesthood).
John 14:6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me."
Sometimes the Gospel is not presented clearly enough for the non-elect to reject it.

Offline Tom

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Re: Is God the ultimate puppet Master?
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2006, 12:33:53 PM »
Quote from: me again;38131
If you could choose your way into heaven, then salvation becomes dependant on two variables:
1) First, the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.
2) Second, the will of someone to believe in Jesus.

But #2 (above) is heresy because the only thing that can save a man is the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross for His sheep -- and He knows who His sheep are e.g. my sheep hear my voice.  If a man's "will" could get him into heaven, then this scripture would be false: "for strait is the gate and narrow is the way [to salvation] and few there be that find it."  The bottom line: We are 100% dependant upon the mercy of God.  Not 99%, but 100%, to include giving Him the glory for saving us.  The credit for our salvation cannot be given to our "will."  

There are some people who say that if God is 100% sovern, to include the fact that He alone chooses who will enter His kingdom, then the blame for sin must be placed on Him.  But if that is His will, then those who would cast dispersion on Him by insinuating that He is responsible for sin -- are guilty of heresy.  Anyone who would insinuate that the sovernty of God is in any way responsible for the sin in the world is committing heresy -- even if they don't know it.  

God alone is sovern and He made the rules.  Anyone who casts dispersion on Him, simply because they disagree with his 100% sovernity (to include His will on who is saved and who is damned) is living in heresy. He alone is responsible for who gets saved -- and He proved it to His sheep by sacrificing His son on the cross (for the sheep).  The rest are damned.  :what:



This post is the most accurate articulation of the truth of the Gospel I have ever read or heard.
John 14:6 Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me."
Sometimes the Gospel is not presented clearly enough for the non-elect to reject it.

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Is God the ultimate puppet Master?
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2006, 02:18:24 PM »
Again, you are reading Calvinist objections into very clearly written posts.  No matter what I write, you're going to quote the party line instead of actually considering it.

I'll try one more time before giving up-

I believe, and for the most part agree with Arminius:

Man is completely dead in his sin (100%, totally, completely, buried and eaten by worms dead)  I can't make it any more clear then that, unless you want a visual of a rotten corpse.

Salvation is available to all.  That is John 3:16-17 as it is written, not through the thick lens of Calvin's interpretation.  (which I note, neither of you have ever provided a defense for other then trying to apply it to sheep only, which is horrible exegesis)

Grace is available to all, through the Holy Spirit's enabling.  Man will never choose God without this enabling.  It does not require infilling or regeneration, but a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit to enable man to see the light, albeit temporarily if they choose to remain unsaved.  I generally comes through the preaching of the Gospel.

If Jesus can make rocks cry out, donkey's talk, and unregenerate Saul and Baalam prophesy through the power of the Holy Spirit, why is it so hard for you to grasp that He can make men see the light, and want the light?  None of these recieved an "eternal indwelling".   We are talking about individual men here, not mankind in general.


This is off topic, but I'll still address it:

In regards to Tom's snip about eternal security- I believe we are eternally secure as far as God's concerned.  I do believe mankind can choose to walk away from God and His gracious gift, and loose his salvation.  You would have to cut dozens, if not hundreds of verses out of the bible to believe in a complete eternal security, starting with Jesus' and every apostle's warnings about persevering.

I also believe that once this happens, he is eternally damned (this is where I differ from Arminius), as he has grieved the Holy Spirit, and pretty much spit on Jesus.  It's the only way to recognize verses like Rom 8 with Hebrews.

I don't believe our security is as tenious as many, if not most, Arminian preachers would make it, and I understand that's where the misconception is.  To put it this way- if a person listening to the preaching is feeling conviction, they are still saved.  The likelyhood of someone who had been saved and lost it sticking around to here the Gospel is pretty slim...
John O


 

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