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Author Topic: Who/What is God/Jesus?  (Read 1161 times)

Offline Quasar

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Who/What is God/Jesus?
« on: November 15, 2008, 11:18:09 AM »
Beginning in Proverbs 8, pertaining to the Wisdom of God, I refer specifically to the following portion of it in verses 22 through 36, that clearly identify the pre-incarnated spirit of Jesus Christ, the WHO, of the Wisdom of God. [From the NIV].

"The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, [Vs 22-24]

when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before He made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. [Vs 24-26]

I was there when He set the heavens in place, when He marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when He established the clouds above and fixed securly the fountains of the deep, [Vs 27-28]

when He gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep His command, and when He marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at His side. I was filled with delight day after day, [Vs 29-30]

rejoicing always in His presence, rejoicing in His whole world and delighting in mankind. Now then my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways. Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it. [Vs 30-33]

Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. For whoever finds me finds life and receives favor from the Lord. But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death." [Vs 34-35]

See also Heb.10:5.

That Jesus is the Wisdom [Power and knowledge] of God is made abundantly clear in 1 Cor.1:24 and Col.2:2-3

From the above, the Word of God clearly reveals the pre-incarnated spirit of Jesus Christ was created and is therefore not 'co-eternal' with the Spirit of God, as God stated clearly in Isa.43:10 and 44:6. The same passage of Scripture also clearly reveals there are two 'personages' involved, not just one. God, whom the Scriptures reveal is the Holy Spirit, and the pre-incarnated Spirit of Jesus Christ. In the KJV, another example of the pre-incarnated Spirit of Jesus being created comes from their translation of Pr.8:22, which reads as follows: "The Lord POSSESSED me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old." In a review of Gen.14:19 and 22, the term POSSESSED in both, means CREATOR, i.e., that God CREATED the heavens and the earth, as well as the pre-incarnated Spirit of Jesus Christ.

To further reinforce the Pr.8:22-36 passage, it can also be seen in Col.1:15, that Jesus is/was the FIRSTBORN over all creation. And in vs 18, it is written that He is the FIRSTBORN from the dead. Let it be crystal clear, the term, 'FIRSTBORN' means exactly the same in both verses! It means FIRSTBORN, not of everlasting eternity, but rather, as in Pr.8:22, He was brought forth as the first of YHWH's works, before the world began.

When the Holy Spirit of God overpowered the virgin Mary [In Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35], she conceived what became the incarnated Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God  Several things happened then: 1. God, who is the Holy Spirit became the Father of Jesus, making the Holy Spirit and the Father one 'personage' [Spirit], Lk.1:35. Fulfilling the prophecies of God in 2 Sam.7:14, 1 Chr.17:13 and Ps.2:7, and repeated after being fulfilled in Heb.1:5. 2. The incarnated Jesus immediately received the Holy Spirit and His deity together with the power to give the Holy Spirit to whomever He chose. 3. Jesus said, whover believes in him is born again, through the Holy Spirit He gives to those who do, and promises eternal life. Jn.3:16, Mt.3:11, Mk.1:8, Lk.3:16, Jn.1:33 and Acrs 2:1-3. See also Jn.20:21-22, 1 Jn.3:24 and 1 Jn.4:13.

Jesus stated in Jn.17:3 that the FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD. Clearly inferring that He considered Himself God as well. Otherwise, Jesus would undoubtedly have said His FATHER IS THE ONY GOD, would He not? By the same token, the Father prophecied by calling His Son, God/Lord in Ps.45:6-7; IIO:1 and in Isa.7:14. After that was fulfilled, it was repeated in Mt.1:23 and in Heb.1:8-9. It is also written that Jesus is the image of the invisible God. Though the Father is Pure Spirit, Jesus had a human/physical body that received an imperishable, immortal resurrection body, as in 1 Cor.15:52-54, whose pre-incarnated Spirit was created.  Though there is no question as to Jesus deity, by the very testimony of God Himself, the proper description of God is:

ONE TRUE GOD AND JESUS CHRIST, THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD/GOD THE SON [As in PS.45:6-7, 110:1 AND Isa.7:14 and fulfilled in Mt.1:23 AND IN HEB.1:8-9].

According to the Scriptures [Jn:4:24; 2 Cor.3:17-18; Lev.11:44-45 and 1 Pet.1:15-16], God is the Holy Spirit, [YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, Lord God, God Almighty, etc., etc., etc.], and is also the Father, which is only a title, as all of us fathers are who have children.  We have also seen the Father and the Son are two separate entities who are neither co-eternal nor co-equal. Jesus said the Father is greater than He in Jn.14:28 and greater than all in Jn.10:29.

As to the matter of Jesus remarks about He and His Father being one, which many people fail to comprehend and understand - meaning, they are one spiritually - and have nothing whatever to do with them being one and each the same person.  He said He and the Father are one in Jn.10:30 and Jn.17:21. What Jesus meant in 17:21-22, that all we believers become one with He and the Father, as He and the Father are. When thinking about that carefully, it can be understood that we all become a part of the one body of Christ, and the Father, through belief in Him, receiving His baptism with the Holy Spirit [Mt.3:11; Mk.1:8; Lk.3:16 and Jn.1:33], becoming a born again person [Spiritually]through the one Spirit of God. 1 Cor.12:12-13. But it must be understood that we all retain our own physical, individual identities, personage, in the very same way the Father and the Son do. Two Personages!

The apostles in every epistle in the Bible offer greetings to BOTH THE FATHER AND TO JESUS. If they were only one person, it is quite obvious those greetings would all have been different. By the same token, the Holy Spirit is not mentioned in any of those greetings, because the apostles all knew the Father was/is the [Holy] Spirit.

Keep in mind, the Spirit of God dwelt within Jesus, when He testified about it in Jn.14:10-11 as well as when He said, "...When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be AND THAT I DO NOTHING ON MY OWN BUT SPEAK JUST WHAT THE FATHER HAS TAUGHT ME." Jn.8:28. An exact case and point can be found in Lk.22:3, where Satan enters into Judas, who is then controlled by [the spirit who is] Satan, in the same way the Spirit of God controlled what Jesus said and did. But both He and Judas retained their own spirits and individuality.

Your comments are invited.


« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 12:15:52 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.





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