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Author Topic: Partial Rapture  (Read 23779 times)

Offline John Oscar

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Partial Rapture
« on: September 17, 2009, 04:01:35 PM »
My pastor is starting a series of sermons on the idea that the rapture is not all inclusive for believers.  His theory is that the rapture is for Christians who are living overcoming lives.

I'm placing a link for those who might want to follow it-

http://www.prayerhouseag.org/?TargetPage=C0D644C8-B044-4257-84D6-70E69C1DDD99

Let me know what you think.
John O


Offline Quasar

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2009, 09:23:33 AM »
First of all, the theology of a partial rapture is non-Scriptural.  Nowhere in the Bible is such an idea even entertained.  Either you are saved, or you aren't, as Jn.3:16; 10:27-29; Rom.10:9-10 and Eph.1:13-14 clearly reveal.

The Bema judgement of Christ, as seen in 1 Cor.3:1-15, a believer is judged by that which he/she has done in their body [during their human life] that "goes through the fire and remains."  Or, what we have done in serving the Lord, that remains and has not been burned up.  From which our rewards/crowns are based upon.  But has nothing to do with our salvation, according to vs 15.  If everything we have done in our bodies that goes through the fire is burned up, we suffer "loss," but not our salvation.

So far there has been no mention as to the timing of the rapture of the Church, except in lesson 2, where 2 Thes.2:3 is quoted, in which the KJV mistranslation of the Greek "apostasia" and Latin "discessio," apostasy is used.  That the original translation for it was "departure," of the Church.  From the Greek Septuagint, through Jerome's translation of it to the Latin, "discessio," which also means "to depart," or "departure."  Seven of the very first English translations of the Bible used the term, "departure," until the KJV came along in 1611 A.D. and changed it to "apostasy."  See the translation history of it below.  

The entire text of 2 Thes.2, is about a rapture of the Church, not an apostasy, or falling away.  Though "apostasia" is also used in those ways, depending on the text it is used in.

He alludes to Lk,21:36 as well as passages in Mt.25 which leads me to believe his views on the timing of the rapture of the Church is post-trib, which is also non-Scriptural in the first place.  In the second place, Jesus ministry during His first advent was exclusively to Israel, which He clearly revealed in Mt.15:24 and in 10:5-6.  The Church did not exist then because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived until Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended, in Acts 2:1-3 and 1:9.  

A review of 2 Thes.2:1-3 reveals Paul referring to what he taught the Thessalonicans in 1 Thes.4:15-17.  That the Day of the Lord/the 70th and final week of God's decree upon the destiny of Israel/the seven year tribulation, will not take place until the "apostasia" [Departure/rapture] occurs [first].  Repeated in vs 7, where "the one who holds it [lawlessness] back will continue to do so until he is taken out of the way."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way is the one body of Christ, His Church.  In vs 7 they are taken out of the way while in vs 3, they depart.  In other words, they will be raptured before the man of lawlessness [antichrist] is revealed, as documented in both vs 3 as well as in vs 8.  In other words, where the timing of the rapture of the Church is pre-trib and cannot be anywhere else.

See my next post for the meaning of and translation history of the term "apostasia."

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2009, 09:28:31 AM »
The Meaning of Apostasia:
The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2 Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, " that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia)Moses." The word is a Greek compound of apo " from" and istemi " stand." Thus, it has the core meaning of " away from" or " departure." The Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon defines apostasia first as " defection, revolt;" then secondly as " departure, disappearance." [1] Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports the basic meaning of departure in the following:


The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8;13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men(1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from the body (2 Cor. 12:8) , and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13).[2]


" It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the original languages," concludes Daniel Davey, " that the word meaning of apostasia is defined as departure." [3] Paul Lee Tan adds the following:


What precisely does Paul mean when he says that " the falling away" (2:3) must come before the tribulation? The definite article " the" denotes that this will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of Sin. The Greek word for " falling away" , taken by itself, does not mean religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean " to fall," as the Greeks have another word for that. [pipto, I fall; TDI] The best translation of the word is " to depart." The apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which he calls " the departure," and which will occur just before the start of the tribulation. This is the rapture of the church.[4]


So the word has the core meaning of departure and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such as departure from the faith.


Translation history:
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) .[5] This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' " [6] Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of " departure" in 1611 A.D.?

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No good reason was ever given.

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2009, 09:06:11 AM »
Quasar,

He does believe in pre-trib for the overcoming Christian.  If he didn't, his Assembly of God credentials would be in jeopardy.

I'm not defending his theory as I'm still studying it and thinking about it.

The lessons are going to continue.  
If you have a question for him, his email is revauch@prayerhouseag.org
John O


Offline Quasar

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2009, 10:22:01 AM »
No questions for him as of the moment, John.  The only thing I noticed in his teachings that do not fit the pre-trib rapture is everything Jesus taught during His first advent.  Which was exclusively to Israel, as He clearly stated in Mt.15:24 as well as in Mt.10:5-6.  Because the Church did not exist until Pentecost and the arrival of the Holy Spirit, in Acts 2:1-3, ten days after Jesus ascended, in Acts 1:9.  Therefore, the Church is not involved in any of the text in the Gospels, except for one place, in Jn.14:1-4 and 28.

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2009, 08:33:38 PM »
Quasar,

Just so I understand, you are saying that nothing Jesus taught was for the church, but exclusively for Israel?
John O


Offline Quasar

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2009, 11:49:33 PM »
Quote from: John Oscar;44595
Quasar,

Just so I understand, you are saying that nothing Jesus taught was for the church, but exclusively for Israel?



Q:  No, John, that's not what I'm saying at all.  I'm repeating what I said originally:  The Church did not exist during Jesus first advent, for two reasons.  The first one is recorded in Mt.15:24 as well as in Mt.10:5-6, where Jesus makes it clear He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.  The second reason, is because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived until Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended.

Therefore in the time frame He was ministering here on earth, it was exclusively to Israel.  The text at the time had nothing whatever to do with the Church.  After Israel rejected Jesus as their Messiah, God opened the doors to the new Covenant of grace and Jesus commission Paul as His apostle to bring the Gospel to the Gentiles, when much of His teachings applied to them as well.  But not all of it, which was still to Israel only.

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2009, 12:28:46 AM »
Quote from: Quasar;44596
Q:  
Therefore in the time frame He was ministering here on earth, it was exclusively to Israel.  The text at the time had nothing whatever to do with the Church.  


So the "whosoever" John 3:16-17 was written only to Israel?

I'm only repeating the exact meaning of what you are saying...

I'm not doing it to be a jerk, but to make sure I'm clear on what you are trying to say.
John O


Offline me again

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2009, 04:51:22 PM »
Quote from: John Oscar;44552
My pastor is starting a series of sermons on the idea that the rapture is not all inclusive for believers.  His theory is that the rapture is for Christians who are living overcoming lives.

I'm placing a link for those who might want to follow it-

http://www.prayerhouseag.org/?TargetPage=C0D644C8-B044-4257-84D6-70E69C1DDD99

Let me know what you think.
Is your pastor saying that some people who are filled with the Holy Spirit will be raptured (group A), while other people who are filled with the Holy Spirit won't be raptured (Group B)? :noidea:

Group A: People filled with the Holy Spirit who get raptured.

Group B: People filled with the Holy Spirit who don't get raptured.

Group C: People not filled with the Holy Spirit who don't get raptured.
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2009, 06:11:05 PM »
Well, I have to put a mild translation on this for non-Pentecostals.

"Filled with the Spirit" is a catch phrase among Pentecostals/Charismatic’s that means (somewhat variably) recieving the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the initial physical evidence of speaking in other tongues.

Ron, my pastor, is not saying that only spirit-filled believers will qualify for the rapture.  He uses 1 Cor 2:10- 3:4 to describe three groups of people-

1.  Unsaved
2.  Saved, but not living for Christ.  The bible terms these peoples as carnal.
3.  Saved, and living for Christ.

Only group 3 will be raptured.  Ron's premise is that the rapture is not a benefit of salvation, but a reward for those who are actively living for Jesus at the time of the trumpet's call.
He uses the three parables found in Matt 24, particularly the parable of the ten virgins to defend this-

1.  All were virgins (a type of those saved for eventual marriage to Christ)
2.  Only 5 were wise and kept their wicks trimmed (denying flesh) and oil (type of the Holy Spirit) full.
3.  Only 5 entered into the marriage supper of the lamb, which takes place after the rapture and before Jesus' return to earth at Armageddon.
4.  The other 5 had to endure the outer darkness (the tribulation) and will eventually prove their faith by martyrdom.

I hope that helps.
John O


Offline Quasar

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2009, 12:28:21 AM »
Quote from: John Oscar;44597
So the "whosoever" John 3:16-17 was written only to Israel?

I'm only repeating the exact meaning of what you are saying...

I'm not doing it to be a jerk, but to make sure I'm clear on what you are trying to say.



Q:  Repeated from what I posted in response to your remarks above:

Therefore in the time frame He was ministering here on earth, it was exclusively to Israel. The text at the time had nothing whatever to do with the Church. After Israel rejected Jesus as their Messiah, God opened the doors to the new Covenant of grace and Jesus commission Paul as His apostle to bring the Gospel to the Gentiles, when much of His teachings applied to them as well. But not all of it, which was still to Israel only.

Such passages as Mt.24; Mk.13 and LK.21 are exclusively directed to Israel, as an example.

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline RevJWWhiteJr

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2009, 08:09:16 AM »
revjwwhitejr@aol.com

You are a child of God, or you are not a child of God, is correct. But the question of being included in the Rapture is, are you an obedient child of God.

2 Corinthians 11: Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.  2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The entire church is espoused or engaged to Christ. But Pauls fear was that the church would (and has) corrupted itself, by the majority of the church attaching itself to the world.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

The day of Christ mentioned here in verse two is not the Rapture. Nor is Paul informing the Church of Thessalonica in this particular passage that they had not missed the coming of Lord Jesus that they had been waiting for, as instructed. They had been informed by false teachers infiltrating the church that the day of Christ was at hand. In other words it was nigh, very close and that they should be preparing for it. What’s wrong with this picture, you might ask?

The problem was, the false teachers in question were Post-Tribulationists, and were teaching the day of Christos or the day of the Messiah (his coming in power and great glory at the end of The Great Tribulation Period) was at hand. Therefore, by the church’s understanding from the teachings of Paul in his first letter, they concluded they were inside the Great Tribulation Period and had missed “the gathering” of verse one as well as the teachings of Paul in 1st Thess. 4:16-18 (or the Rapture, that they knew would proceed the Great Tribulation).

The Thessalonians were the first “recorded” Partial Rapturists, although their were others. It was a common teaching of the day. If the teachings they were being exposed to were accurate, they had been “left behind” when the Lord had come to gather his bride. This can be easily seen in verse one by the manner in which Paul introduces the explanation to come.

Paul :
Now we beseech you, brethren, (the believers of the church, and by the way, the lost were not being addressed, they are not brethren)

by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, (the Glorious Appearing of which they understood Paul to teach would end the Great Tribulation, but were now being instructed was closing in on the world)

and by our gathering together unto him, (the gathering of the Bride, which in consideration to Paul‘s earlier teachings of 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18 concerning our being “caught up together“, they were now being informed by false teachers they had missed).

The mention of both comings in reverse order (much like Luke’s description of a more complex sequence in chapter 17:28-36 of his Gospel) is repeated in the following verses. They were confused, and it was Paul’s intention to re-educate them drawing from the lessons of his first letter, as well as his prior visit.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Let no man deceive you by any means: (self explanatory)

for that day (the day of Christ, Christos, The day of The Messiah or conquering King of Israel)

shall not come, (self explanatory)

except (until)

there come a falling away (of which some modern Christians consider to be believers falling away from the truth of the gospel or faithfulness to the Lord, still others believe it could be an obscure mention of the Rapture itself)

first (self explanatory),

and that man of sin (the anti-christ)

be revealed, (self explanatory)

the son of perdition (further identifying the anti-christ).

The key to understanding this passage is in the correct identification of the English phrase “falling way“, translated from the Greek word apostasia.

One, but only one, of the contextual meanings inside the definition is “a departure”. That reference inside the definition has prompted some Pre-Tribulationists to entertain the possibility that the proper translation is just that. Literally a departure, meaning the Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Bride. After all, such an interpretation would agree with their timing of the doctrine.

However, accepting the translation “a departure” at face value and inferring it to be referring directly to the “catching up” of the Bride at the time of the Rapture is a selection by the individual of the portion of the definition that appeals to them based on their current beliefs. The actual definition is as follows.

apostasia - the feminine form of the same, (in the neutral, apostasion) - defection (or departure) from the truth (the state of) “apostasy” falling away, to forsake.

So, within the definition we do have an understanding of a departure being conveyed, but only in reference to a defection or forsaking of, the truth. The structure of the sentence itself, nor the definition of the word in the original Greek, make claim inside the context of the passage to a departure as some Pre-Tribulationists suggest. This view must first be inferred, then in turn interpreted as such by the reader. That being the case, it would be more likely that the traditional belief of the church experiencing a departure from the truth or the occurrence of a falling away from the faith just before the Rapture, would be correct. That is, if it were not for another little known definitionary fact.

apostasia - the feminine form of the same, (in the neutral, apostasion)

“apostasia” is the feminine form of its counterpart “apostasion” which is the neutral of the same. Namely, the same subject matter. In the feminine it retains its own definitions of defection, departure, falling away, or forsake, but only within the subject matter of its neutral counterpart, establishing the context of the passage. The neutral form possesses the same attributes, but in a manner active to the subject matter it “specifically” defines.

apostasion - neutral - something separative, specifically divorce, - (writing of) divorcement.

With the word apostasia being by definition “the same as” apostasion in feminine form, the action being discussed in this passage is “in the feminine” a falling away, the state of apostasy, to forsake, a defection from the “Truth” (in subject, the coming of the Lord), but in a setting of divorce defined by its counterpart, apostasion.

The only state that could be being described in relation to this passage is the Partial Rapture’s teaching of the unfaithful and disobedient members of the church being divorced by their Bridegroom the Lord Jesus Christ at the time he comes for his faithful Bride. That would cause the majority of the Church of God to be “Left Behind” at the time of the Rapture, to enter into and endure (and to be martyred inside) the Great Tribulation Period.

So, the “falling away” is speaking of the Coming of the Lord, but is the record of his rejection of the portion of the church who is in violation of its marriage vows, and committing adultery against its Bridegroom.

Paul is teaching them that just as they understood the Rapture of the Bride (or catching up) will proceed the Glorious Appearing, the revealing of the anti-christ and the beginning of The Great Tribulation itself, it will unfortunately also result in the divorce of the unfaithful as well. He is actually confirming the teaching of The Partial Rapture as valid, but reassures them those who remain obedient to the Lord will not be included in the rejection.

The largest majority of the modern church feels, (And I was actually told this next statement by an obvious opponent of these teachings) “That is the single most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The scripture doesn’t say anything even remotely similar to that anywhere. You would have to torture a passage of scripture to the point of absurdity to get it to “confess” to such a thing.”

Oh, Really ? !!

Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Keep in mind, adultery can only be committed against ones own spouse. The individuals being addressed by Jesus are espoused (or engaged) to Christ. 2nd Corinthians 11:1-3.

The dangers for not heeding the warnings recorded by the scriptures through the Lord Jesus Christ himself are supplied for us in Luke 21:34-36. This passage can not be applied to Israel nationally. Israel can not escape the Great Tribulation. It is The Time of Jacob's Trouble and was established specifically for her to turn her back to her messiah. He is speaking to believers, the church.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and [the] cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

But Revelation 2:22, in perfect harmony with the balance of the scripture, says it all.

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« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 09:51:19 AM by RevJWWhiteJr »
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Offline Quasar

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2009, 04:13:36 PM »
Interesting theology Rev.J.W.White Jr.  I'll get back to you when more time is available for me to do so.  Meanwhile, consider the following:


Beginning with Jn.14:2-4 and 28:

"In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4].

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28].


The Scriptures tell us where we all go, who belong to Christ, after the death of our bodies:

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, in and of itself, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the seven year tribulation, when He returns for those of us who are still alive, waiting for His appearing. When He has already raised all those who have died in Him, to be with Him, immediately after their physical death, over the past 2,000 years.


A look at 1 Thes.4:13-18:

The Thessalonians were very concerned about those among them who had died, that they would not be gathered together with the rest of them when Jesus returned. Paul assures them in vs 13-14 that they will all be returning with Christ from heaven, where they have been since He raised them up to be with Him, the day they died physically, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8.

"We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him [Died physically]. Vs 14.

"According to the Lord's own word [Scriptural truth as to the fact that Jesus taught there was to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded in Jn.14:2-4 and 28], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." Vs 15. An assurance by Paul to the Thessalonians that the dead in Christ had already been raised from the dead before, and were already with Christ when He returns for all those left on earth alive at His coming.

Because they have already been raised, each in his/her own turn, according to 1 Cor.15:23. That is the very reason it is not documented as a resurrection in the Scriptures.

"For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven [With all His saints,, according to vs 14], with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" [Paul again assures them, as seen in verses 13-14, they were already previously raised once before, each in his/her own turn, as they died, over the past 2,000 years]. Vs 16.

"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the sky. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Vs 17. Where we proceed with Jesus to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

"Therefore encourage each other with these words." Vs 18.


The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:

"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2.

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

"Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original meaning was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Vs 3. [Go to the following URL for the translation history of the Greek term, "apostasia"].

http://ifaith.m9studios.com/forum/showthread.php?t=220


"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15].


The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:

"For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he is taken out of the way." Vs 7.

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, each of us bearing the Holy Spirit within us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," the rapture of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

"And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

The antichrist is the same person found in Dan.7:23-27; 8:9-12 and in 9:27, confirmed by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:1-8.


From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocaalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures.

All parenthetics, mine.

See my post: http://ifaith.m9studios.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1268

God Bless!

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2009, 11:57:01 PM »
There is nothing in the Bible supporting a "partial rapture" of the Church.  That's like saying when Jesus died , He only took the sins of some of us away, contradicting Jn.1:29.

When each one of us who belong to Christ dies physically, we go to be with the Lord immediately, each in our own time, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8.  Which means the only ones left to go with Him, at His appearing in the clouds of the sky, are all of us who belong to Him, left here on the earth, alive at His appearing.  According to 1 Thes.4:16-17.  

I have already documented the pre-trib timing of the rapture of the Church in my previous post, together with the links in it.

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2009, 12:43:24 AM »
No one is arguing Pre-trib.  The subject is partial rapture.

1 Thess 4 doesn't say anything about who goes in the rapture, only a vague "we who are left" statement.
John O


 

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