* *
430 Guests, 0 Users

Author Topic: Partial Rapture  (Read 22962 times)

Offline Quasar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2009, 12:39:35 PM »
Quote from: John Oscar;44660
No one is arguing Pre-trib.  The subject is partial rapture.

1 Thess 4 doesn't say anything about who goes in the rapture, only a vague "we who are left" statement.



Q:  There is but one rapture, which I identified when it takes place.  That everyone who belongs to the one body of Christ will participate is as certain as Jesus having died for all sins, not just some.

Which would mean another trip to the cross, or in the case of the rapture, more than one trip from heaven to get those who didn't get picked up the first time.  Nowhere in the Bible is there any inference of any partial rapture.

There are a couple of points he made in his effort to build a case for a partial rapture, including Scripture from the Gospels.  All of which are oriented exclusively to Israel, not to the Church, in Jesus first advent.  Which He made abundantly clear in Mt.15:24 and in Mt.10:5-6.  Because the Holy Spirit did not arrive until Pentecost, in Acts 2:1-3, ten days after Jesus ascension, in Acts 1:9.

He also alluded to a translation error in the KJV, in which they translate 2 Thes.2:2 as the day of Christ, when every reliable ms has it as the Day of the Lord, which Paul used in his text there as reference to the seven year tribulation.  The Day of Christ is that time when He returns for His Church, before the seven year tribulation begins in 1 Thes.4:16-17.

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline John Oscar

  • Bondservant of the Lord
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4766
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • Whitehall Assembly
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2009, 09:24:26 PM »
Your equating the rapture with salvation.  Where in the bible is that tie made?

The whole crux of the matter is that those who see partial rapture in the bible are not equating it with salvation at all, but as a reward for the overcomer/non-carnal Christian.  They are rewarded for their lives up to that point by being able to attend the marriage supper of the Lamb and reign and rule with Christ for the 1000 years.

It is God's mercy to allow the carnal to remain on earth to refine their lives to the point of being able to recieve a reward which up to this point they have not gotten (see 1 Cor 3- they are the ones who make it through the fire, but their works are burned up.  This is making a possiblility for them to have something that will survive the fire)

BTW, I'm still stewing on this...I'm not quite ready to dive in and say I totally believe this.  I'm pretty much regurgitating what my pastor has taught so far.
John O


Offline Quasar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2009, 03:14:37 PM »
My response was not "equating the rapture to salvation," but rather that there is no in between being saved and not being saved.  Show me in the Bible anywhere you find any such thing.  The comparison is found in Jn.3:16 and 18.  Either - or, nothing in between.

By the same token, there is no one who is a member oif the one body of Christ who will miss the pre-trib rapture of the Church, if they are still living at Jesus appearance in the clouds of the sky, to take them to our Father in heaven, as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.  

The rest of us who die in Him before then, are seen returning with Him from heaven when He comes, in 1 Thes.4:14.  As a result of what is documented in 2 Cor.5:6-8.

When you read 1 Cor.3:10-15, you will find, the Bema judgement of Christ is a judgement of our works while in our human bodies.  For all that goes through the fire and lasts, that person will receive his reward(s).  For those who's works are burned up, He will suffer loss, but not his salvation.

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline RevJWWhiteJr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • Gender: Male
  • Pre-Trib, Partial Rapturist
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • The Partial Rapture Forum
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2009, 06:06:58 AM »
The statements,,

There is nothing in the Bible supporting a "partial rapture" of the Church. That's like saying when Jesus died , He only took the sins of some of us away, contradicting Jn.1:29.

John 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

This passages says nothing whatsoever about The Rapture. Jesus did die for the sins of the whole world, but his sacrifice dealt with reconciling man with  God, and saving mankind from separation for all eternity in hell. Inclusion in the Rapture is another subject intirely.

Hebrews 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hebrews 9 27-28 is the only passage in the scripture that speaks of a return of Jesus Christ and documents that coming as "the second time". His second appearance will be the next time he appears, which will be The Rapture. At this coming this passage also documents who he will appear to. "unto them that look for him". Not all members of the church (all and everyone who are saved) are looking for the return of Jesus Christ. Many do not even believe in the Rapture. Most of the church has even tied itself to the world in direct violation of Jesus' own warning.

Luke 21:34-36
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Author: The Partial Rapture "Theory" Explained / Escaping The Coming Storm

The Partial Rapture Forum : partialrapture.net
Email directly at revjwwhitejr@aol.com

Offline Quasar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2009, 11:11:44 AM »
Quote by Rev. J.W.White, Jr.:

Re: Partial Rapture

The statements,,

JWW: There is nothing in the Bible supporting a "partial rapture" of the Church. That's like saying when Jesus died , He only took the sins of some of us away, contradicting Jn.1:29.


Quasar: That is an accurate statement which I have already previously posted.


JWW: John 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

This passages says nothing whatsoever about The Rapture. Jesus did die for the sins of the whole world, but his sacrifice dealt with reconciling man with God, and saving mankind from separation for all eternity in hell. Inclusion in the Rapture is another subject intirely.


Q: Nor did I say it did. It was to illustrate that Jesus died for everyones sins, in the very same way He will rapture all those who belong to Him, not just some of them.


JWW: Hebrews 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hebrews 9 27-28 is the only passage in the scripture that speaks of a return of Jesus Christ and documents that coming as "the second time". His second appearance will be the next time he appears, which will be The Rapture. At this coming this passage also documents who he will appear to. "unto them that look for him". Not all members of the church (all and everyone who are saved) are looking for the return of Jesus Christ. Many do not even believe in the Rapture. Most of the church has even tied itself to the world in direct violation of Jesus' own warning.


Q: The best way to reveal the Scriptural views contradicting the above is to direct you to my following posts:

http://ifaith.m9studios.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1268

http://ifaith.m9studios.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1169


JJW: Luke 21:34-36
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
partialrapture.net / revjwwhitejr@aol.com


Q: Jesus ministry during His first advent was exclusively to Israel as He made clear in Mt.15:24 as well as in Mt.10:5-6. His Church did not exist then because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, until ten days after His ascension, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3. After Israel rejected Jesus as their Messiah and crucified Him, God opened the door to His New Covenant to the Gentiles and Jesus returned to commission Saul/Paul as His Apostle to the Gentiles in Acts 9:15-16. Then, and after Pentecost, Jesus teachings pertained to everyone who believe in Him, whether Jew or Gentile. Nevertheless, much of His teachings are still exclusively directed to Israel, because they are the ones who must go through the 70th and final week of God's decree upon their destiny/the Day of the Lord/the seven year tribulation, according to Dan.9:27. The Church does not. as the Scriptures clearly reveal.

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Quasar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2009, 11:16:05 AM »
Quote by Rev. J.W.White, Jr.:

Re: Partial Rapture

The statements,,

JWW: There is nothing in the Bible supporting a "partial rapture" of the Church. That's like saying when Jesus died , He only took the sins of some of us away, contradicting Jn.1:29.


Quasar: That is an accurate statement which I have already previously posted.


JWW: John 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

This passages says nothing whatsoever about The Rapture. Jesus did die for the sins of the whole world, but his sacrifice dealt with reconciling man with God, and saving mankind from separation for all eternity in hell. Inclusion in the Rapture is another subject intirely.


Q: Nor did I say it did. It was to illustrate that Jesus died for everyones sins, in the very same way He will rapture all those who belong to Him, not just some of them.


JWW: Hebrews 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hebrews 9 27-28 is the only passage in the scripture that speaks of a return of Jesus Christ and documents that coming as "the second time". His second appearance will be the next time he appears, which will be The Rapture. At this coming this passage also documents who he will appear to. "unto them that look for him". Not all members of the church (all and everyone who are saved) are looking for the return of Jesus Christ. Many do not even believe in the Rapture. Most of the church has even tied itself to the world in direct violation of Jesus' own warning.


Q: The best way to reveal the Scriptural views contradicting the above is to direct you to my following posts:

http://ifaith.m9studios.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1268

http://ifaith.m9studios.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1169



JJW: Luke 21:34-36
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
partialrapture.net / revjwwhitejr@aol.com


Q: Jesus ministry during His first advent was exclusively to Israel as He made clear in Mt.15:24 as well as in Mt.10:5-6. His Church did not exist then because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, until ten days after His ascension, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3. After Israel rejected Jesus as their Messiah and crucified Him, God opened the door to His New Covenant to the Gentiles and Jesus returned to commission Saul/Paul as His Apostle to the Gentiles in Acts 9:15-16. Then, and after Pentecost, Jesus teachings pertained to everyone who believe in Him, whether Jew or Gentile. Nevertheless, much of His teachings are still exclusively directed to Israel, because they are the ones who must go through the 70th and final week of God's decree upon their destiny/the Day of the Lord/the seven year tribulation, according to Dan.9:27. The Church does not, as the Scriptures clearly reveal.

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline RevJWWhiteJr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • Gender: Male
  • Pre-Trib, Partial Rapturist
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • The Partial Rapture Forum
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2009, 08:59:37 AM »
That was my point. The statement was yours, not mine. It is incorrect. There is ample evidence in the scripture of the Partial Rapture. Many passages (the plain text reading of which are not accepted by the majority of the church) point directly to this doctrine.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

This passages clearly describes the fact that upon the second time Jesus appears (The Rapture), he will appear only to them that are looking for him. Not all of the church even believes in his second appearance but refers to his third appearance (at the end of the great tribulation period) as “the second coming” (a phrase that does not actually appear in the scripture).

At the end of the great tribulation, all eyes shall see him. The entire world will witness his final return, unlike The Rapture when only those that are looking for him will observe the event.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

The scripture says that every believer is espoused (or engaged) to Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.  2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

But most of the church has corrupted itself by the things of this world. That was Paul’s very fear, documented by the very next verse.

2 Corinthians 11: 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The warning of which is given in Luke 21 : 34-36.
(The statement that Jesus is directing his teachings to Israel is incorrect.)
Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Why warn Israel of an escape from the great tribulation, (the 70th week of Daniel), that she is incapable of being a part of. The escape is for the church, and by his own description the portion of the church that is not wrapped up in the cares of this life, who is “accounted worthy” through obedience. Israel can not escape “The time of Jacob’s Trouble”. It is for her it exists in order to point her back to her true messiah.
Author: The Partial Rapture "Theory" Explained / Escaping The Coming Storm

The Partial Rapture Forum : partialrapture.net
Email directly at revjwwhitejr@aol.com

Offline Quasar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2009, 11:41:56 PM »
Response to your post of tody will be forthcoming, Rev.White, as soon as I can put it together.  You have yet to respond to the Scriptural proof of a one time rapture in the links I left for you in my last post.  How about your response to those.

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Quasar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2009, 12:55:13 AM »
Quote by Rev.J. W. White, Jr.:

Re: Partial Rapture

JWW: That was my point. The statement was yours, not mine. It is incorrect. There is ample evidence in the scripture of the Partial Rapture. Many passages (the plain text reading of which are not accepted by the majority of the church) point directly to this doctrine.


Q: A. If the point you are referring to was there will be a partial rapture, then let me see the scriptural support for it. B. What statement was mine? Please be specific. C. You will require scriptural proof that my statemtn is incorrect, which I have nothing but your opinion as of now. D. I'm waiting for your proof of a "Partial Rapture doctrine.


JWW: Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

This passages clearly describes the fact that upon the second time Jesus appears (The Rapture), he will appear only to them that are looking for him. Not all of the church even believes in his second appearance but refers to his third appearance (at the end of the great tribulation period) as “the second coming” (a phrase that does not actually appear in the scripture).

Q: Heb.9:28 is addressing Israel and has nothing whatever to do with the Church. The appearance of Christ a second time for them is the second coming as Jesus taught them in the Olivet Discourse of Mt.24:4-31. Which will be fulfilled during the time frame recorded in Zech.12:10, after Jesus second coming, near the end of the seven year tribulation.

The pre-trib rapture of the Church is for all of us who belong to Christ, whether Jew or Gentile, as recorded in 2 Thes.2:1-8. Prior to the Day of the Lord [Not Christ, as is the mistranslation in the KJV], the seven year tribulation. When Christ returns to the earth in His second coming, he will be accompanied by His angels, in Mt.24:31 and His entire Church, in Rev.19:14.

JWW: At the end of the great tribulation, all eyes shall see him. The entire world will witness his final return, unlike The Rapture when only those that are looking for him will observe the event.


Q: There is no such thing as a post-trib rapture of the Church, as I have already pointed out to you when it will take place according to the scriptures. In addition to the fact that the pre-trib raptured Church is recorded in Rev.19:14 as returning with Christ when He returns to the earth in His second coming.


JWW: Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


Q: Rev.1:7 is not aboiut the rapture of the Church, but rather His second coming to the earth, as described in Zech.12:10-14, where the reason for the mourning is described. Which is also recorded in Mt.24:30. There will most certainly not be any mourning when Jesus returns for His Church before the seven year tribulation begins, as fully covered in the Jn.14:2-4 and 28; 1 Thes.4:13-18 and 2 Thes.2-1-8.


JWW: The scripture says that every believer is espoused (or engaged) to Christ.


Q: That's absolutely correct, and they will attend the wedding in heaven while the tribulation is taking place, in Rev.19:7-9.The Church does not go through the seven year tribulation, as clearly recorded in 2 Thes.2:1-3 and 7. The tribulation saints are all brought to the Lord by the 144,000 Israelites God will place on the earth to preach the Gospel, as replacement for the raptured Church. Recorded in Rev.7:1-8, and the parenthetic passage pertaining to the Great Multitude they will bring to the Lord during the seven year tribulation, in Rev.7:9-17. None of whom belong to the raptured Church, before the tribulation begins, or they would have also participated in the rapture before the tribulation begins.


JWW: 2 Corinthians 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.


Q: Has nothing to do with either a pre-trib rapture of the Church or Jesus second coming to the earth.


JWW: But most of the church has corrupted itself by the things of this world. That was Paul’s very fear, documented by the very next verse.

2 Corinthians 11: 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The warning of which is given in Luke 21 : 34-36.
(The statement that Jesus is directing his teachings to Israel is incorrect.)
Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


Q: Your view that Jesus ministry in His first advent had anything to do with the Church is in error according to Jesus own crystal clear statement in Mt.15:24 as well as in Mt.10:5-6. The (Israelites who believed in Him became members of His Church after the Holy Spirit arrived at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended, in Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.


JWW: Why warn Israel of an escape from the great tribulation, (the 70th week of Daniel), that she is incapable of being a part of. The escape is for the church, and by his own description the portion of the church that is not wrapped up in the cares of this life, who is “accounted worthy” through obedience. Israel can not escape “The time of Jacob’s Trouble”. It is for her it exists in order to point her back to her true messiah.


Q: Warnings to Israel had to do with those who believed in Him, which would make them members of His one body, His Church, after Pentecost, even though still Israelites, they became the believing Jews first, along with the Gentiles, all combined to form His Church.That is the "escape" of all Israelites who believed in Jesus.[/color]

__________________
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

partialrapture.net / revjwwhitejr@aol.com


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Quasar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2009, 01:18:38 AM »
Quote by Rev.J. W. White, Jr.:

Re: Partial Rapture

JWW: That was my point. The statement was yours, not mine. It is incorrect. There is ample evidence in the scripture of the Partial Rapture. Many passages (the plain text reading of which are not accepted by the majority of the church) point directly to this doctrine.


Q: A. If the point you are referring to was there will be a partial rapture, then let me see the scriptural support for it. B. What statement was mine? Please be specific. C. You will require scriptural proof that my statemtn is incorrect, which I have nothing but your opinion as of now. D. I'm waiting for your proof of a "Partial Rapture doctrine.


JWW: Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

This passages clearly describes the fact that upon the second time Jesus appears (The Rapture), he will appear only to them that are looking for him. Not all of the church even believes in his second appearance but refers to his third appearance (at the end of the great tribulation period) as “the second coming” (a phrase that does not actually appear in the scripture).


Q: Heb.9:28 is addressing Israel and has nothing whatever to do with the Church. The appearance of Christ a second time for them is the second coming as Jesus taught them in the Olivet Discourse of Mt.24:4-31. Which will be fulfilled during the time frame recorded in Zech.12:10, after Jesus second coming, near the end of the seven year tribulation.

The pre-trib rapture of the Church is for all of us who belong to Christ, whether Jew or Gentile, as recorded in 2 Thes.2:1-8. Prior to the Day of the Lord [Not Christ, as is the mistranslation in the KJV], the seven year tribulation. When Christ returns to the earth in His second coming, he will be accompanied by His angels, in Mt.24:31 and His entire Church, in Rev.19:14.



JWW: At the end of the great tribulation, all eyes shall see him. The entire world will witness his final return, unlike The Rapture when only those that are looking for him will observe the event.


Q: There is no such thing as a post-trib rapture of the Church, as I have already pointed out to you when it will take place according to the scriptures. In addition to the fact that the pre-trib raptured Church is recorded in Rev.19:14 as returning with Christ when He returns to the earth in His second coming.


JWW: Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


Q: Rev.1:7 is not aboiut the rapture of the Church, but rather His second coming to the earth, as described in Zech.12:10-14, where the reason for the mourning is described. Which is also recorded in Mt.24:30. There will most certainly not be any mourning when Jesus returns for His Church before the seven year tribulation begins, as fully covered in the Jn.14:2-4 and 28; 1 Thes.4:13-18 and 2 Thes.2-1-8.


JWW: The scripture says that every believer is espoused (or engaged) to Christ.


Q: That's absolutely correct, and they will attend the wedding in heaven while the tribulation is taking place, in Rev.19:7-9.The Church does not go through the seven year tribulation, as clearly recorded in 2 Thes.2:1-3 and 7. The tribulation saints are all brought to the Lord by the 144,000 Israelites God will place on the earth to preach the Gospel, as replacement for the raptured Church. Recorded in Rev.7:1-8, and the parenthetic passage pertaining to the Great Multitude they will bring to the Lord during the seven year tribulation, in Rev.7:9-17. None of whom belong to the raptured Church, before the tribulation begins, or they would have also participated in the rapture before the tribulation begins.


JWW: 2 Corinthians 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.


Q: Has nothing to do with either a pre-trib rapture of the Church or Jesus second coming to the earth.


JWW: But most of the church has corrupted itself by the things of this world. That was Paul’s very fear, documented by the very next verse.

2 Corinthians 11: 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The warning of which is given in Luke 21 : 34-36.
(The statement that Jesus is directing his teachings to Israel is incorrect.)
Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


Q: Your view that Jesus ministry in His first advent had anything to do with the Church is in error according to Jesus own crystal clear statement in Mt.15:24 as well as in Mt.10:5-6. The (Israelites who believed in Him became members of His Church after the Holy Spirit arrived at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended, in Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.


JWW: Why warn Israel of an escape from the great tribulation, (the 70th week of Daniel), that she is incapable of being a part of. The escape is for the church, and by his own description the portion of the church that is not wrapped up in the cares of this life, who is “accounted worthy” through obedience. Israel can not escape “The time of Jacob’s Trouble”. It is for her it exists in order to point her back to her true messiah.


Q: Warnings to Israel had to do with those who believed in Him, which would make them members of His one body, His Church, after Pentecost, even though still Israelites, they became the believing Jews first, along with the Gentiles, all combined to form His Church.That is the "escape" of all Israelites who believed in Jesus.


JWW: Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


Q: There is no conflict in that statement at all, whether for Israel, as is the above, or for the Church when Jesus appears for them the second time.


JWW" partialrapture.net / revjwwhitejr@aol.com


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline RevJWWhiteJr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • Gender: Male
  • Pre-Trib, Partial Rapturist
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • The Partial Rapture Forum
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2009, 06:37:46 PM »
Quote from: Quasar;44683
Response to your post of tody will be forthcoming, Rev.White, as soon as I can put it together.  You have yet to respond to the Scriptural proof of a one time rapture in the links I left for you in my last post.  How about your response to those.

Quasar


My lap top is in the shop. I am on a backup that has problems. given the time I can respond to any quiries, but there is no proof text that confirms the non-existance of the partial rapture. You and yours will not be interested I know, but my book The Partial Rapture "Theory" Explained / Escaping The Coming Storm documents about 2/3erds of the information in the the scripture confirming the Partial Rapture. My message board partialrapture.net has some of that information contained on it.

I was raised Southern Baptist and was taught and believed the traditional Pre-Trib Rapture for the first 22-23 years of my life. I have been studying the Rapture since the age of 15. I came to the conclusions I have independent oif any others teaching it to me. Revelation 2:22 sums up my belief.

Revelation 2:22
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Not if they repent of unbelief and are saved, but if they repent of the sins they are guilty of against the Lord inside their belief in him. The sin of adultery against the bridegroom Jesus Christ. If they repent, they will not go into great tribulation.
Author: The Partial Rapture "Theory" Explained / Escaping The Coming Storm

The Partial Rapture Forum : partialrapture.net
Email directly at revjwwhitejr@aol.com

Offline RevJWWhiteJr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • Gender: Male
  • Pre-Trib, Partial Rapturist
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • The Partial Rapture Forum
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2009, 06:45:39 PM »
The book of Hebrews was not written to Israel. It was written to Jewish converts to Christianity, believing Hebrews.
Author: The Partial Rapture "Theory" Explained / Escaping The Coming Storm

The Partial Rapture Forum : partialrapture.net
Email directly at revjwwhitejr@aol.com

Offline Quasar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2009, 12:01:47 AM »
Quote from: RevJWWhiteJr;44692
My lap top is in the shop. I am on a backup that has problems. given the time I can respond to any quiries, but there is no proof text that confirms the non-existance of the partial rapture. You and yours will not be interested I know, but my book The Partial Rapture "Theory" Explained / Escaping The Coming Storm documents about 2/3erds of the information in the the scripture confirming the Partial Rapture. My message board partialrapture.net has some of that information contained on it.

I was raised Southern Baptist and was taught and believed the traditional Pre-Trib Rapture for the first 22-23 years of my life. I have been studying the Rapture since the age of 15. I came to the conclusions I have independent oif any others teaching it to me. Revelation 2:22 sums up my belief.

Revelation 2:22
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Not if they repent of unbelief and are saved, but if they repent of the sins they are guilty of against the Lord inside their belief in him. The sin of adultery against the bridegroom Jesus Christ. If they repent, they will not go into great tribulation.



Q: Rev.2:22 is the the fourth of seven letters, to Thyatira, Jesus dictated to His Church.  It has nothing at all to do with Israel, except for the Jews who belived in Jesus, thereby belonging to His Church.

Nor does it have anything at all to do with the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as Rev.3:10 does, that is revealed in the sixth letter to Philadelphia.  The "hour of trial" that will be brought upon the entire world, is the Day of the Lord, also referred to in Rev.18:19.

When I was in High School, I went to a Bible Conference at Lake Sammamish, Wash, near Seattle, in August of 1937 when I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior.  Teachers present were professorss from both Moody Bible Institute as well as Fuller Theological Seminary, who not only taught us the way to our salvation, but also about the pre-trib rapture of the Church.

Since then, I have finished courses at Prairie Bible Institute at Three Hills, Alberta Canada for my BA and after WW2 when I served with the USAAF Air Corp in the Pacific for two years, under Dr.Harold Wilmington, at Liberty University for my Masters.  I have held memberships in the Presbyterian, the Brethren, the Methodist, the Lutheran, MO Syn. and the So. Baptist churches, depending on where I was living at the time.

Though I still hold a membership with the So. Babtist church, I now declare myself non-denominational because I do reject some of mainstream teachings of the church.

Please explain to me in as simple words as you can, exactly what you mean by your Partial Rapture views.  I want to make sure there is nothing about it that I end up assuming, if communications are not crystal clear.

Sorry you are having problems with your laptop and hope you will be able to effect repairs to it shortly.

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Quasar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2009, 12:15:50 AM »
Quote from: RevJWWhiteJr;44694
The book of Hebrews was not written to Israel. It was written to Jewish converts to Christianity, believing Hebrews.



Q: That Hebrews was not written to Israel, but rather to the Jewish converts is a pretty good stretch of the facts!  The converts were leaving the "Way" by the tens of thousands when Jesus did not return as they thought He was before the Jubilee year of 66 A.D., I think it was.  As a result of that, the book was directed to them.  See Heb.4:2 for a brief explanation of the events taking place at that time.  Which also generated the passages in 6:4;5 and in 10:26-3.

Not to fret over any conditions or other obligations you are faced with.  There is no hurry pertaining to when either of us can respond in kind re this issue.

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline RevJWWhiteJr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • Gender: Male
  • Pre-Trib, Partial Rapturist
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • The Partial Rapture Forum
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2009, 06:24:10 PM »
Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Israel rejected Jesus as Messiah. The book of Hebrews was written to Jewish converts. One can not be a "holy" brethren or a partaker of the heavenly calling without being a believer in Jesus as Christ (or "Christos" aka "missiah").
Israels rejection of Jesus as Christ negates the letter being adressed to the nation as a whole.

The remander of Chapter three twice speaks toward the teachings of the conditional or Partial Rapture.

A history lesson pointing to the future of the "rest".

 Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; 2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.  3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house. 4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God. 5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, "if" we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of "the hope" (the blessed hope) firm unto the end.

7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you (believers) an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, "if" we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

15 While it is said, To day "if" ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation........


18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest,,,,,,,,,
Author: The Partial Rapture "Theory" Explained / Escaping The Coming Storm

The Partial Rapture Forum : partialrapture.net
Email directly at revjwwhitejr@aol.com

 

ads

Recent

Shoutbox

Last 5 Shouts:

 

me again

October 09, 2014, 02:15:06 PM
Quote
Religious Lie: "God only paid for sins until the next time you sin."
Forgiveness is available until we get to eternity and then our eternal fate is sealed. Right now, people are free to sin and repent; but there is no forgiveness of sin for the damned in hell.
 

Stan

October 05, 2014, 10:24:53 AM
"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
 

Stan

May 03, 2014, 01:12:35 PM
Lots of visitors..  easy to join,  easy to post...  come make some friends..  Play nice with others.
 

The Crusader

February 26, 2014, 04:30:18 PM
Religious Lie: "God only paid for sins until the next time you sin."
 

The Crusader

December 23, 2013, 09:38:53 AM
JUST A THINK ABOUT IT: Will you embrace the full meaning of Christmas? Jesus didn't die just so you could go to heaven. He came to give you life - His life; an abundant life free from guilt, condemnation, and slavery to both sins and religion. He came to bring a grace revolution to the world and tha

Show 50 latest

Our Amazon Store

Unique visitors since Dec 1, 2012

Flag Counter