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Author Topic: Partial Rapture  (Read 25093 times)

Offline RevJWWhiteJr

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #180 on: April 03, 2012, 01:52:47 PM »
Overview of the Partial Rapture Theory

This view is in contrast to the previous views in that the question of the timing of the rapture is not the focus but rather the nature of the rapture.

Description of the Partial Rapture Theory

This view teaches that only those who are spiritual, who are prepared for the Lord’s return, will escape the terrors of the tribulation by being taken in the rapture.

RevJW/Bro.Chip [I don’t know what is always meant by “spiritual” by those who keep using the term at the same time pointing to me and others as teaching it, as I have never used that term. All believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. The scripture however does tell us that as the Holy Spirit indwells us, we are in turn required to be continually walking in the Spirit. Not all believers are walking in the Spirit of God and leading “Christian” or “Christ like” lives but are living carnally as the scripture describes and teaches should not be done.]

Carnal Christians are raptured progressively during the tribulation as they become righteous and the tribulation period is a time for disciplining believers toward holy living.

RevJW/Bro.Chip [I have never taught this and the teaching does not appear in my book because it appears nowhere in scripture. Anyone who teaches this is in error. There will only be one Rapture of the Bride of Christ. All believers that are not ready for the Rapture at the time of the Rapture will miss the Rapture and enter into the great tribulation since they have severed themselves from the Bride due to their disobedience of the sin of adultery against their BrideGroom. Rev. 2:22. They will be joined inside the great tribulation as a group (the tribulation saints) by those that enter into the great tribulation lost, but surrender to the Lord through salvation after having discovered the truth. But this is inside the great tribulation period and will cost all of the aforementioned their lives at the hand of the powers that be, led and controlled by the anti-christ.]

RevJW/Bro.Chip [ (All of this is explained in my book, of which all of the detractors of the teachings have failed to read and are thereby speaking out of turn on most Partial Rapture points, or the Partial Rapture that I teach anyway. I might add there are several independent partial rapture teachings that are not in agreement with each other and to even a greater extent mine.) ]

History of the Partial Rapture Theory

The partial rapture theory originated with Robert Govett in 1835 in his book Entrance into the Kingdom: The Apocalypse Expounded by Scripture.

RevJW/Bro.Chip  [The Partial Rapture did NOT originate with Robert Govett. He may have surely independently rediscovered the teaching in The Word and therefore began its first modern popularization, but it was known and even documented to have been taught publicly in the second century. And since I (and others) found it in The Word it was taught in the first century.]

Later proponents of this view include J.A. Seiss, G.H. Pember, G.H. Lang, Ray Brubaker and the cult of the Local Church Movement (Witness Lee).

RevJW/Bro.Chip [This is true and these great men of God probably were influenced by Govett and others that came before them, however such facts prove nothing of the teachings origins, which is the scriptures themselves. For example, I found the teaching in The Word independent of any and all teachings by others outside the scripture and only became aware of others belief in the Partial Rapture upon my searching historical records for it. (When I discovered the teachings in scripture, that I was actually calling The Conditional Rapture at the time, were it to be true, I also understood that I could not have been the only one to recognize the teaching. Of which I later confirmed through a search of church history.)]

FROM MY BOOK, edited and paraphrased

Found in : The Shepherd of Hermes.

We will acknowledge first that much of what is recorded in these texts does not agree with the teachings of the scripture. That fact alone establishes the complete set of manuscripts of no doctrinal value. But, setting aside that detail for the moment in order to analyze the contents of these documents, we learn one of the records makes mention of a vision the “shepherd” had of a giant raging beast. This animal made an attempt to charge the shepherd presumably to cause him great harm. The shepherd however was able to escape by relying on God for protection.

The next vision he encounters is that of a beautiful maiden, identified by the shepherd himself as the Church. She in turn identifies the creature as an illustration of the Great Tribulation to come, and tells him he escaped it by putting his full trust in God. She then gives him the responsibility of informing all other believers they can do the same, but only if they too put their full trust in the Lord.

This is a very brief look and oversimplification of the content of those manuscripts. But since they have been accepted to have been written in the second century, it is concrete proof that the “concept” of the Rapture in general (as referring to an escape from a future time of Great Tribulation) and conditions connected to participating in that specific escape existed outside of Biblical text, but inside the body of the Church, to within approximately one hundred years of the physical death of Jesus Christ.

Even if the doctrine is in error, it was a belief of a portion of the membership of the Church, regardless of how few, documented to as early as the second century and there exists earlier evidence. You can honestly choose to believe and thereby continue to teach the doctrine to be in error, but you cannot deny that it was believed by a portion of the early Church. It existed, that is a fact.

(This is not the first time I have pointed this out and keep having to do so for those who continue to teach and profess this error.)

Analysis of the Partial Rapture Theory

The defense of this view is wrongly based on a few passages which refer to Israel during the tribulation period (Luke 21:36; Matthew 24:41-42; Matthew 25:1-13) and which are based on a
false distinction between believers (Hebrews 9:28).

RevJW/Bro.Chip [Luke 21:34-36 does not refer to Israel for one simple reason. This passage (spoken by our Lord Jesus Christ no less, to believers) speaks of an escape from (not out of) the great tribulation, a clear mention of the Pre-Trib Rapture. Israel cannot escape out of, much less from the great tribulation. The great tribulation (or seventieth week) exists for the sole purpose to finish the transgressions of Israel and make an end of their sins. Israel, as a nation, cannot in any fashion escape the great tribulation, so Luke 21:34-36, which is a warning to believers, lays down the conditions necessary to escape the great tribulation.]

The difficulties with this view are as follows:

• The rapture is never presented as a reward for godly living in the Scripture.

RevJW/Bro.Chip [First, the Rapture is not a reward for Godly living therefore would not be presented in the scripture as such. That is a misrepresentation by those who misinterpret the teachings of the Partial Rapture and point back to me as if that is what I teach. I do not. The Rapture is simply the event reserved by God (Jesus) for those believers who have not tied themselves to the world and the lust thereof but have kept their eyes, minds and hearts on the return of the Lord for his Bride.]

• The partial rapture view destroys the unity of the body of Christ.

RevJW/Bro.Chip [I have never understood this statement as a teaching. The “body of Christ,” if one is referring to the church, is in no unity whatsoever today physically, and is separated literally by death. Most believers that have lived in history are physically departed and separated from those of us who are still alive. Also, all believers who are still alive are separated by (in simple terms) denominations and doctrines, (exampled by the teaching of the Partial Rapture itself to mention only one). We are far from united in a number of beliefs. The Trinity, soul sleep, spiritual baptism, water baptism, baptism by sprinkling, the resurrection, none of these subjects and hundreds more are we in unity on.] 

• The partial rapture view destroys the imminent hope of the return of Christ for all believers.

RevJW/Bro.Chip [Nowhere in scripture is “imminence” taught, if in fact one is referring to an “at any moment” return. The only mention of the Lords return in scripture (multiple times to be sure) is that it will occur (it is indeed imminent, as in it is in our future and there is no stopping it) and we are to be ready when he does. The proof of this can be seen in that the scripture being written in the middle of the first century to the earliest years of the second could not make mention of an “at any moment” appearance of Jesus at that time since his return was impossible before 1947-48 and the fulfillment of the restoration of Israel as a nation in her homeland and the beginning of the re-gathering of the twelve tribes within her disputed boarders.]

• What happens to carnal Christians who died before the rapture?

RevJW/Bro.Chip [Quite simply, those believers who were not walking in The Spirit, or did not have their heart right with God (Jesus the BrideGroom) at the time of their death will not be included in the Rapture. (This would include regretfully most of my own departed family. I don’t often make mention of that unfortunate fact because it is a bitter pill to swallow however true.) They were definitely part of the church having been saved during their lifetime and have their eternal reward, but they are not a part of The Bride of Christ having not obeyed the voice of their BrideGroom.]

Galatians 5:16
16.    This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Colossians 2:8
8.    Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Ephesians 5:6-8
6.    Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 
7.    Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8.    For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

RevJW/Bro.Chip [The scripture does confirm that the entire Church as a whole (baring no individual member) is espoused or engaged to Christ at this present time.]
2nd Corinthians 11:1-3
1.   Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.                                                                                             
2.   For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
RevJW/Bro.Chip [But most of the Church has corrupted itself from the simplicity that is in Christ by not keeping itself chaste. Paul, in the very next verse in fact, documented for us that this was his very fear.]

2nd Corinthians 11:3
3.   But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Luke 21:34-36
34.   And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.                                                           
35.   For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.                                                                                             
36.    Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

RevJW/Bro.Chip [I’m sorry that there are so many that disagree with the wording of these passages, especially Luke 21:34-36. Inside this passage we (not Israel) are warned not to be overcharged with the cares of this life, so that day come upon us unawares or taken by surprise. For as a snare shall it come upon all that live on the entire face of the earth (including Israel). Watch and pray, that (for the purpose of) you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, (the great tribulation of which he had just described in detail).
I’m sorry the wording offends so many, but that is what it says, and Israel cannot escape.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 11:05:10 AM by RevJWWhiteJr »
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Offline Lysimachus

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #181 on: April 03, 2012, 02:00:37 PM »
There is no question that scriptures do teach that the saints will be gathered up into the clouds and taken to the New Jerusalem where God dwells.   Many Christians, in order to try and debunk the pre-trib rapture theory, end up swinging the pendulum to the opposite direction and going from one ditch to the other--by declaring there is no rapture at all.  This doesn't impress those who espouse a pre-trib or post-trib rapture, it only turns them away.

The Adventist position of the rapture is the only one that makes any Biblical sense. 

It's very simple, and solves ALL eschatological problems.

At the Second Coming, every saint, from Adam to the last righteous man, is caught up and gathered into the heavens with Christ and taken to the New Jerusalem. 

The earth will be left void--a desolate wilderness--for 1000 years.

At the end of the 1000 years, the New Jerusalem, with Christ and all the saints descend to the earth.  The wicked nations are resurrected, Satan goes out to deceive them to besiege the Beloved City, and fire comes down out of heaven to devour them. 

The earth is then made new.

This event--which is post-millennial, is not the Second Advent, but a Third Coming.

Adventism adheres to a Pre-Millennial view of the Second Coming.  Just not an "earthly premillennial" view, but a "heavenly premillennial" view.

Accept this view, and you just solved all the eschatological problems that existed between the pre-trib, the post-trib, the pre-millennial, and the post-millennial advocates. 

This view is in alignment with the basic understanding of the Second Coming by the Reformers:

That at the Second Coming of Jesus, all the saints go to heaven. :)

Very simple.

Only the Adventist eschatological construct can make room for this to work in light of the 1000 year millennium.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 02:11:25 PM by Lysimachus »

Offline Quasar

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Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #182 on: April 07, 2012, 01:52:08 PM »
No one is arguing Pre-trib.  The subject is partial rapture.

1 Thess 4 doesn't say anything about who goes in the rapture, only a vague "we who are left" statement.

Q: And my post is describing what the Scriptures teach.  FYI, 1 Thes. 4:13-18 is crystal clear as to who Paul is referring to.  That you don't see it that way doesn't alter it one bit!

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