* *
601 Guests, 1 User
 

Author Topic: Partial Rapture  (Read 23772 times)

Offline Quasar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2009, 11:31:39 AM »
I'll get back to you on this shortly, Rev.J.J.W.

Are you a Marine Chaplain, or should I say "were you a Marine Chaplain?"

Quasar


P.S. I am having some PC trouble and it is now 1:10 A.M 10/23/09.  My apology.  Will get back to you as soon as possible.

Quasar
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 01:08:53 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Quasar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2009, 09:13:03 AM »
As I stated previously:

>>>Q: That Hebrews was not written to Israel, but rather to the Jewish converts is a pretty good stretch of the facts! The converts were leaving the "Way" by the tens of thousands when Jesus did not return as they thought He was before the Jubilee year of 66 A.D., I think it was. As a result of that, the book was directed to them. See Heb.4:2 for a brief explanation of the events taking place at that time. Which also generated the passages in 6:4;5 and in 10:26-3.<<<


Many Israelites joined "the Way" because they thought Jesus was going to restore their kingdom right away.  But after He was crucified and did not return, they left by the thousands.  That is what the following vs has reference to:

"For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did, but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith."  Heb.4:2.

Then from vs 3-11 is referring to God's "Day of rest," for all His people, the 1,000 year reign of Christ on the earth.  There is no rapture of the Church in view in Hebrews at all.  

As Peter wrote in 2 Pet.3:8: "...With the Lord a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a day."

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Online John Oscar

  • Bondservant of the Lord
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4766
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • Whitehall Assembly
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2009, 03:13:05 PM »
Quote from: Quasar;44714

Many Israelites joined "the Way" because they thought Jesus was going to restore their kingdom right away.  But after He was crucified and did not return, they left by the thousands.  That is what the following vs has reference to:



That doesn't make any sense.  Jesus returned for 40 days and was seen by hundreds of people (1 Cor 15).  Hebrews was written decades after his ascension (62-70 AD).
John O


Offline Quasar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2009, 11:29:55 PM »
Quote from: John Oscar;44716
That doesn't make any sense.  Jesus returned for 40 days and was seen by hundreds of people (1 Cor 15).  Hebrews was written decades after his ascension (62-70 AD).



Q:  Reference made in Hebrews 4:1-11 had nothing to do with the 40 days after Jesus resurrection.  It was to the second coming ov Jesus, and the thoughts of thousands of Israelites He would return right away and didn't, that caused them to leave the "Way" by the thousands.

That passage refers to the Millennial reign of Christ on earth, i.e. God's "Day of Rest" for His people - the Sabbath and 7th millennium.

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Online John Oscar

  • Bondservant of the Lord
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4766
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • Whitehall Assembly
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2009, 11:58:16 PM »
Quote from: Quasar;44717
Q:  Reference made in Hebrews 4:1-11 had nothing to do with the 40 days after Jesus resurrection.  Quasar


I didn't say it did.  You said- "But after He was crucified and did not return, they left by the thousands"

That's what I was addressing.  I was merely pointing out that there is a 25+ year gap between the ascension of Christ and the writing of Hebrews.  They lasted that long, and were now just leaving the faith so the author of Hebrews decided to address it?.

I'm trying to understand where you are getting this from, as I have never heard that slant on Hebrews, and it might be a chance for me to learn something.  I've always seen Hebrews as a treatise to the Hebrew people proving the supremecy of Christ to the Old Testament Levitical worship and Mosaic law.
John O


Offline RevJWWhiteJr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • Gender: Male
  • Pre-Trib, Partial Rapturist
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • The Partial Rapture Forum
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2009, 07:26:21 AM »
Quote from: Quasar;44695
Q: Rev.2:22 is the the fourth of seven letters, to Thyatira, Jesus dictated to His Church.  It has nothing at all to do with Israel, except for the Jews who belived in Jesus, thereby belonging to His Church.

Nor does it have anything at all to do with the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as Rev.3:10 does, that is revealed in the sixth letter to Philadelphia.  The "hour of trial" that will be brought upon the entire world, is the Day of the Lord, also referred to in Rev.18:19


Revelation 3:10 does not mention the Rapture or the Great Tribulation by name. I agree that the subject of "the hour of temptation" is the great tribulation, but it has to be interpreted from the text. The text does not state it directly. The Great Tribulation is mentioned by name only three times in the scripture. The second is Revelation 2:22 where is mentioned a portion of the church (in reference to Thyatira) is to be cast into this Great Tribulation unless they repent of the sin of adultery. If they repent of the sin of adultery they will not be cast into Great Tribulation.

The current belief of the church (that believes in the rapture) has the belief that all that is necessary to be included in the rapture is salvation. The members of the church of Thyatira are called servants of the Lord by the Lord. That designation by Jesus himself (and the fact that they are part of the church) confirms them as believers, yet guilty of the sin of adultery against their BrideGroom, this verse confirms they will be cast into Great Tribulation except they repent.

The only alternative available to anyone concerning "not" being cast into the "Great Tribulation" is the Rapture. How could Revelation 2:22 not be a teaching of the Rapture since it teaches one how to avoid (escape) that time period of history. The Rapture is the only way to avoid the Great Tribulation.
Author: The Partial Rapture "Theory" Explained / Escaping The Coming Storm

The Partial Rapture Forum : partialrapture.net
Email directly at revjwwhitejr@aol.com

Offline RevJWWhiteJr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • Gender: Male
  • Pre-Trib, Partial Rapturist
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • The Partial Rapture Forum
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2009, 07:58:40 AM »
Quote from: Quasar;44712
I'll get back to you on this shortly, Rev.J.J.W.


Okay

Quote from: Quasar;44712
Are you a Marine Chaplain, or should I say "were you a Marine Chaplain?"

Quasar


No. I raised a Marine. He has since been discharged. I could not find any more appropriate avatar until I figured out how to upload my own. I did spend over eight years in law enforcement. I was a Texas Peace officer on a municiple level.


Quote from: Quasar;44712
P.S. I am having some PC trouble and it is now 1:10 A.M 10/23/09.  My apology.  Will get back to you as soon as possible.

Quasar


Having been in the same perticament several times the last few years, I am sorry to hear that.
Author: The Partial Rapture "Theory" Explained / Escaping The Coming Storm

The Partial Rapture Forum : partialrapture.net
Email directly at revjwwhitejr@aol.com

Offline Quasar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2009, 12:04:25 AM »
My eldest son was a deputy in the San Bernardino, CA sheriff's dept. for 27 years, and retired three years ago.  He just lost his wife a month ago who was only 56.  Please remember him in your prayers if you will.

My computer is up and running OK again, I'm happy to say.  Since I already responded to your last post, it's your turn to pitch.

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline RevJWWhiteJr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • Gender: Male
  • Pre-Trib, Partial Rapturist
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • The Partial Rapture Forum
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2009, 06:27:11 AM »
Quote from: Quasar;44726
My eldest son was a deputy in the San Bernardino, CA sheriff's dept. for 27 years, and retired three years ago.  He just lost his wife a month ago who was only 56.  Please remember him in your prayers if you will.

My computer is up and running OK again, I'm happy to say.  Since I already responded to your last post, it's your turn to pitch.

Quasar


I have added your son to my prayer list. I have several friends and family members that send me requests regularly, and have a file in my e-mail box where they are kept. Our church has an extensive prayer request list and is a substantial portion of our regular services. My heart goes out to your son.
Author: The Partial Rapture "Theory" Explained / Escaping The Coming Storm

The Partial Rapture Forum : partialrapture.net
Email directly at revjwwhitejr@aol.com

Offline me again

  • Bought with a price...
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3682
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://theologyreview.com/
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2009, 08:48:30 PM »
Quote from: Quasar;44726
My eldest son was a deputy in the San Bernardino, CA sheriff's dept. for 27 years, and retired three years ago.  He just lost his wife a month ago who was only 56.  Please remember him in your prayers if you will.
I didn't know you're son was a deputy. It's a small world!  May the Lord's will continue to be done in his life. I hope he feels better as soon as possible. :angel:
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Quasar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2009, 12:24:29 AM »
Thanks much Rev.White and Me Again for your prayers and kind thoughts about my son's recent loss of his wife.  they were just short of their 25th wedding anniversary.

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline RevJWWhiteJr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • Gender: Male
  • Pre-Trib, Partial Rapturist
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • The Partial Rapture Forum
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2009, 08:48:11 AM »
You are most welcome. Also, further concerning your previous statement,,,

Quote from: Quasar;44656
There is nothing in the Bible supporting a "partial rapture" of the Church.  That's like saying when Jesus died , He only took the sins of some of us away, contradicting Jn.1:29.

Quasar


Not being included in the Rapture has nothing to do with a "level" of salvation. There is no "level" of saved. You either are a child of God, (reborn) or you are not.
The teaching, concept and doctrine of The Partial Rapture points out the obedience (or lack thereof) of the child of God. Thereby "accounting" us worthy of being caught up. None of us are worthy to escape Hell itself, but we have been granted escape from Hell through our acceptance of salvation through the sacrifice of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
By the same token, none of us are "worthy" of escape of the Great Tribulation, but we are "accounted worthy" through obedience to God through Christ.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

How does a child of God escape (the words of Jesus, not mine)? I believe the inclusion in the Rapture is as simple as the Lord lays out here.

Revelation 2:22
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Author: The Partial Rapture "Theory" Explained / Escaping The Coming Storm

The Partial Rapture Forum : partialrapture.net
Email directly at revjwwhitejr@aol.com

Offline Quasar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2009, 10:37:38 AM »
Nowhere in the Scriptures will you find anything inferring there is different levels of salvation.  You either believe or you don't.  All of those who lay claim as to "not knowing if there is a God of not," i.e. agnostics, are among those who don't.

Paul's text in 1 Thes.4:14-18 as well as 2 Thes.2:1-8 is addressed to all believers, including himself by his use of the terms, "we," "our," and "brothers."  Attempting to say he was only addressing "some" believers is forcing the Scriptures to say something they are not.

It seems the views you are basing them on, Rev.JWW, is that a person can lose their salvation through disobedience.  Which is non-Scriptural in my opinion.  The purpose of the epistle to the Hebrews is focused on the passage in 4:1-2 to the thousands that believed in Jesus but did not combine it with sufficient faith to obtain their salvation, and who left by the thousands as I have previously addressed, because Jesus did not return right away as they thought He would.  I seriously doubt that they ever received the Holy Spirit, certainly not at any time through the entire ministry of Jesus during His first advent, because He did not arrive until ten days after Jesus ascended, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.

The primary problem with all of them, including the disciples, was applying the second coming of Christ to that of His first.  Such as seen in Acts 1:6.

The Scriptures are clear that our "robes are washed clean" through Jesus shed blood at the time we receive Him as Lord, according to Rom.10:9-10 and Rev.7:14.  Meaning our sins are washed away, never more to be remembered, according to Heb.10:17.  Past, present and future.  Our behavior has nothing whatever to do with our salvation.  Jesus assured us all, in Jn.10:27-29.

God considers us all worthy, according to the above, once we have believed/received Jesus as our Lord.  Regardless of how we see ourselves.  Otherwise He would never justify us and cast our sins away forever.

That It is God's decision to make as to who will go through Jacob's trouble and who won't is His to make, not ours.

There is no half way point of only being prtially saved or completely saved.

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Online John Oscar

  • Bondservant of the Lord
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4766
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • Whitehall Assembly
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2009, 12:45:29 PM »
At the center of this theory is that the rapture is not a salvation "perk", but a reward for faithful living.  Just as we receive different rewards/crowns in heaven, so not everyone will qualify for the blessing of the rapture and attending the marriage supper of the LAMB.
John O


Offline Quasar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
Re: Partial Rapture
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2009, 01:05:00 AM »
When those of us who belong to Jesus, who promised us eternal life, in Jn.3:16 and 10:27, he will raise us to be with Him according to 2 Cor.5:8; "...absent from the body, present with the Lord," confirming Ecc.12:7.

I see it as those of us who have confessed Jesus as our Lord and Savior, who gives/baptises us with the Holy Spirit and washes away all our sins, past,present and future.  Predestined from the foundation of the world to be a son of God, not as a "reward."  Our rewards will come at the Bema judgement of Christ, as recorded in 1 Cor.3:10-15.

Blessings,

Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

 

ads

Recent

Shoutbox

Last 5 Shouts:

 

me again

October 09, 2014, 02:15:06 PM
Quote
Religious Lie: "God only paid for sins until the next time you sin."
Forgiveness is available until we get to eternity and then our eternal fate is sealed. Right now, people are free to sin and repent; but there is no forgiveness of sin for the damned in hell.
 

Stan

October 05, 2014, 10:24:53 AM
"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
 

Stan

May 03, 2014, 01:12:35 PM
Lots of visitors..  easy to join,  easy to post...  come make some friends..  Play nice with others.
 

The Crusader

February 26, 2014, 04:30:18 PM
Religious Lie: "God only paid for sins until the next time you sin."
 

The Crusader

December 23, 2013, 09:38:53 AM
JUST A THINK ABOUT IT: Will you embrace the full meaning of Christmas? Jesus didn't die just so you could go to heaven. He came to give you life - His life; an abundant life free from guilt, condemnation, and slavery to both sins and religion. He came to bring a grace revolution to the world and tha

Show 50 latest

Our Amazon Store

Unique visitors since Dec 1, 2012

Flag Counter