* *
371 Guests, 0 Users

Author Topic: Pope Benedict XVI to do beautification of Pope John Paul II  (Read 6415 times)

Offline Stan

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
  • Gender: Male
  • Friend of Sinners
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://www.theologyreview.com
Pope Benedict XVI to do beautification of Pope John Paul II
« on: February 18, 2011, 11:43:28 PM »
Am I understanding this correct, they have to exhume the body, to do this procedure?  I heard that on the news.

I am not wanting to sound anti-catholic, but doesn't that seem a little strange?
Courage

Stan

http://www.theologyreview.com

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things. Philippian

Offline me again

  • Bought with a price...
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3680
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://theologyreview.com/
Re: Pope Benedict XVI to do beautification of Pope John Paul II
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2011, 08:34:31 AM »
There are a lot of false rumors about Catholicism. Compounding that problem is the fact that many Catholics believe in things that are not authorized or sanctioned by the Catholic catechism (the catechism outlines specific Catholic beliefs and doctrines).

Catholicism has a specific procedure for declaring sainthood, but it doesn't include exhuming a body. LOL  :o There could be an exception to that, if it is alleged that the mortal body of the dead person isn't decaying.  :o

Investigating a deceased candidate for sainthood includes interviewing those who knew the person, investigating if there were any miracles and, if so, substantiating them, bringing all the investigative materials to the College of Cardinals for evaluation, etc. 

The purpose of declaring someone a saint is to give those who are still alive on earth a holy example to follow. Catholicism teaches that the universal church is comprised of three different classes of people:

  • Church triumphant - This is comprised of the saints who are now dead and in heaven with our Lord Jesus.
  • Church penitential - This is comprised of the people who are in purgatory where the last vestiges of the love of sin are removed.
  • Church militant - This is comprised of the people who are still inhabiting mortal bodies here on earth. It is "militant" because they are involved in a spiritual battle e.g. "for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places."
So anyways, I guess the saints are those who have already entered the kingdom of heaven. Those who are still here on the earth are classified as "brothers and sisters" in Christ in the "Church militant."
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Stan

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
  • Gender: Male
  • Friend of Sinners
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://www.theologyreview.com
Re: Pope Benedict XVI to do beautification of Pope John Paul II
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2011, 10:00:24 AM »
If I hear any more of them bringing up the body I will post it here.

Again, I am not criticizing them, it just seemed rather strange.

I personally do not believe anyone has gone to heaven, except a handful mentioned in the Bible. BUT this seemed contradictory to me, if he is already there, why would they have to unearth the body?

Will see how this plays out.
Courage

Stan

http://www.theologyreview.com

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things. Philippian

Offline me again

  • Bought with a price...
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3680
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://theologyreview.com/
Re: Pope Benedict XVI to do beautification of Pope John Paul II
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2011, 01:29:05 PM »
I personally do not believe anyone has gone to heaven, except a handful mentioned in the Bible. BUT this seemed contradictory to me, if he is already there, why would they have to unearth the body?

Ah yes my friend, you believe in the Soulsleep Doctrine, while I believe in the Doctrine of the Immortal Soul! Regardless of our disagreement, we are obliged to act and react in kindness to each other, for not everyone has a full understanding of spiritual things. The apostle Paul said, "Though I speak with tongues and have all knowledge, if I have not charity (kindness), then I'm nothing more than wind chimes making noise." Thus, even if I believe that someone is in doctrinal error, I am obliged to show him or her kindness.

Having said that...

The Lord Jesus Christ presented the concept of life after the death of the mortal body in the story of Lazarus and the rich man. If it were not so, then Jesus would not have presented the concept. While the souls of Lazarus and the rich man were in the bowels of the earth, their deceased mortal bodies remain on the earth.

It's also interesting to note that every parable of Jesus is preceded by the word "parable," but the story of Lazarus and the rich man is not!!!

Here we go again!!!  ;D :o
« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 01:30:53 PM by me again »
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Stan

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
  • Gender: Male
  • Friend of Sinners
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://www.theologyreview.com
Re: Pope Benedict XVI to do beautification of Pope John Paul II
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2011, 01:39:27 PM »
Quote
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom.
.

He actually went into Abraham's bosom?  How does that work

Quote
e may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue

A dip of the finger in water would cool his tongue?  How does that work?

It starts off as sounding like a parable.
Quote
There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day. And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores, Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores.

Filled with the crumbs that fell off the table? Same question..

It is worded as a parable.  It would be hard to convince a judge and jury that this was anything but figurative.

I think a judge and jury  would ask for a lot more evidence, even from a first class detective.  :)
Courage

Stan

http://www.theologyreview.com

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things. Philippian

Offline Stan

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
  • Gender: Male
  • Friend of Sinners
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://www.theologyreview.com
Re: Pope Benedict XVI to do beautification of Pope John Paul II
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2011, 01:44:26 PM »
Is there a Bible text that clearly says people go right to heaven when they die?
Courage

Stan

http://www.theologyreview.com

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things. Philippian

Offline me again

  • Bought with a price...
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3680
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://theologyreview.com/
Re: Pope Benedict XVI to do beautification of Pope John Paul II
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2011, 02:57:05 PM »
Is there a Bible text that clearly says people go right to heaven when they die?

Yes!  :o

Jesus provided the illustration of men going to paradise (Lazarus) and hell (the rich man) immediately upon death. Jesus would not present this concept if it were demonic.

The Witch of Endor disquieted Samuel (who was dead in paradise) at the request of Saul. All three of their souls are alive right now, while their mortal bodies sleep-in-death.

The book of Revelation has living souls/martyrs/saints who are asking God how how long it will be before they are avenged. They are alive right now.

In the presence of His disciples, Jesus spoke with Moses and Elijah. All three of them are alive right now.

God is a God of the living and not the dead.

When a man dies, the New Testament describes it as a sleep because while the mortal body returns to dust, the soul remains alive, either in paradise or in hell.

The bible says that the dead saints are alive as witnesses:
Quote from: Hebrews 12:1a
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses.

We also have eye witnesses who have died and gone to heaven or hell, but who returned to tell us about it. You can see some of these testimonies by clicking here and then scrolling down.

I have personally been to the portal of hell and I have personally been allowed to return here to tell you about it. I too am a witness and I testify that the soul continues to exist upon the death of the mortal body, either in heaven or in hell.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 02:59:56 PM by me again »
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Stan

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
  • Gender: Male
  • Friend of Sinners
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://www.theologyreview.com
Re: Pope Benedict XVI to do beautification of Pope John Paul II
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2011, 05:04:08 PM »
let's do one at a time..  all ready dealt with the Rich Man..

The thief on the cross.

Did the thief even die that day?  Nope...
Did Jesus even claim to go to heaven that day?  Nope...

That statement was punctuated wrong.  Thing about it for a minute..
Courage

Stan

http://www.theologyreview.com

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things. Philippian

Offline me again

  • Bought with a price...
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3680
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://theologyreview.com/
Re: Pope Benedict XVI to do beautification of Pope John Paul II
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2011, 05:56:34 PM »
The thief on the cross.

Did the thief even die that day?  Nope...
Did Jesus even claim to go to heaven that day?  Nope...

That statement was punctuated wrong.  Thing about it for a minute..

Yes, I've read about the punctuation theory, but I don't believe it. If you go to the Greek Church and ask them about the context of Luke 23:43, they will tell you that the thief went to paradise on that day. Nobody knows the Greek language better than the Greeks.  :o
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Stan

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
  • Gender: Male
  • Friend of Sinners
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://www.theologyreview.com
Re: Pope Benedict XVI to do beautification of Pope John Paul II
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2011, 07:12:27 PM »
AND if I should you the Biblical record saying they took them down off the cross, after they broke their legs, so they would not get away?
Courage

Stan

http://www.theologyreview.com

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things. Philippian

Offline Stan

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
  • Gender: Male
  • Friend of Sinners
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://www.theologyreview.com
Re: Pope Benedict XVI to do beautification of Pope John Paul II
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2011, 07:21:32 PM »
This whole thing has got off topic

Have to ask this, 
Did Jesus ascend to heaven on the day that he told the thief this?? "I am not yet ascended to my Father" John 20:17. He said this to Mary on Sunday morning, the day he resurrected. So Jesus DID NOT ascend to heaven on the day he told the thief this!!
Courage

Stan

http://www.theologyreview.com

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things. Philippian

Offline me again

  • Bought with a price...
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3680
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://theologyreview.com/
Re: Pope Benedict XVI to do beautification of Pope John Paul II
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2011, 08:28:10 AM »
This whole thing has got off topic

Hey, it's our forum, so we can do what we want. Besides, who cares if Pope John Paul II is beautified (sp)? LOL :o

Have to ask this, 
Did Jesus ascend to heaven on the day that he told the thief this?? "I am not yet ascended to my Father" John 20:17. He said this to Mary on Sunday morning, the day he resurrected. So Jesus DID NOT ascend to heaven on the day he told the thief this!!

I'm not quite sure I understand the question.

It's my belief that:
1. Jesus was begotten of the Holy Spirit.
2. Born of the virgin Mary.
3. Suffered under Pontious Pilot (sp?)
4. Was crucified, died and was buried.
5. Descended into hell.
6. Rose from the dead.
7. Ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God, the Father, the Almighty.
8. Will come again to judge the living and the dead.

Regarding #5 above, paradise was a separate compartment in hell in the bowels of the earth, prior to Jesus' resurrection. After his resurrection to the Father, paradise was removed and taken to heaven. Paradise is no longer in the bowels of the earth, but hell still is. At the end of the age, the wicked will be cast into the Lake of Fire.
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Stan

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
  • Gender: Male
  • Friend of Sinners
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://www.theologyreview.com
Re: Pope Benedict XVI to do beautification of Pope John Paul II
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2011, 08:16:00 AM »
Quote
Regarding #5 above, paradise was a separate compartment in hell in the bowels of the earth, prior to Jesus' resurrection. After his resurrection to the Father, paradise was removed and taken to heaven. Paradise is no longer in the bowels of the earth, but hell still is. At the end of the age, the wicked will be cast into the Lake of Fire.


Actually that word Hell, and check with your Greek friend, is nothing more that the earth, the ground, or where they put the dead, it is not the same greek word that is translated Hell in other parts of the New Testament.

The testimony from others was that he went into the tomb.

Is there ANY biblical support for paradise was part of Hell?  Any of the words that Hell was translated from?
Courage

Stan

http://www.theologyreview.com

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things. Philippian

Offline me again

  • Bought with a price...
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3680
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://theologyreview.com/
Re: Pope Benedict XVI to do beautification of Pope John Paul II
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2011, 08:59:31 AM »
Actually that word Hell, and check with your Greek friend, is nothing more that the earth, the ground, or where they put the dead, it is not the same greek word that is translated Hell in other parts of the New Testament.

The testimony from others was that he went into the tomb.

Is there ANY biblical support for paradise was part of Hell?  Any of the words that Hell was translated from?

Yes, there is biblical support that paradise was a part of the chambers in the inner bowels of the earth; it is in Jesus' testimony of Lazarus and the rich man, but you reject this biblical interpretation.

The Lord Jesus presented the "concept" of life-after-death. Regardless of Greek or Hebrew interpretations of hell and hades, the Lord Jesus clearly presented the "concept" that the rich man and Lazarus were conscious after the death of their mortal bodies.

Jesus said it.
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Stan

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
  • Gender: Male
  • Friend of Sinners
    • View Profile
    • Poke This Member
    • http://www.theologyreview.com
Re: Pope Benedict XVI to do beautification of Pope John Paul II
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2011, 09:18:39 AM »
It is a parable.

How to people go into Abrahams bosom? The whole thing is riddled with such.

There should be evidence all though the Bible to support such, there is not.

If one begins at the beginning of the Bible, and reviews any text on being dead, it becomes clear.

I do not know what soul sleep means. The 'soul' ceases to exist at death.

Thank God for the promise of the resurrection

Courage

Stan

http://www.theologyreview.com

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things. Philippian

 

ads

Recent

Shoutbox

Last 5 Shouts:

 

me again

October 09, 2014, 02:15:06 PM
Quote
Religious Lie: "God only paid for sins until the next time you sin."
Forgiveness is available until we get to eternity and then our eternal fate is sealed. Right now, people are free to sin and repent; but there is no forgiveness of sin for the damned in hell.
 

Stan

October 05, 2014, 10:24:53 AM
"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
 

Stan

May 03, 2014, 01:12:35 PM
Lots of visitors..  easy to join,  easy to post...  come make some friends..  Play nice with others.
 

The Crusader

February 26, 2014, 04:30:18 PM
Religious Lie: "God only paid for sins until the next time you sin."
 

The Crusader

December 23, 2013, 09:38:53 AM
JUST A THINK ABOUT IT: Will you embrace the full meaning of Christmas? Jesus didn't die just so you could go to heaven. He came to give you life - His life; an abundant life free from guilt, condemnation, and slavery to both sins and religion. He came to bring a grace revolution to the world and tha

Show 50 latest

Our Amazon Store

Unique visitors since Dec 1, 2012

Flag Counter