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Author Topic: The Origins of Dispensational Futurism -- (blockbuster--exclusive information!)  (Read 17297 times)


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Are you suggesting that the words of Jesus Christ given to us by His eyewitnesses are confusing to you?  Why was it that Jesus prayed for UNITY among His true disciples? 

I have this to say to all of you:  You will NEVER have unity with Jesus Christ until you become like a child and want to LEARN the real truth from HIS words only.  Believing in anything less than the real truth is believing in and practicing a lie and all of those who do will be throw in the lake of fire.  (See Rev. 21:8 and 22:15)

Offline Lysimachus

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Are you suggesting that the words of Jesus Christ given to us by His eyewitnesses are confusing to you?  Why was it that Jesus prayed for UNITY among His true disciples? 

I have this to say to all of you:  You will NEVER have unity with Jesus Christ until you become like a child and want to LEARN the real truth from HIS words only.  Believing in anything less than the real truth is believing in and practicing a lie and all of those who do will be throw in the lake of fire.  (See Rev. 21:8 and 22:15)

I don't want to have to ask you again Rockroller, but I'm going to ask you now.  Please quit defacing my thread. This is NOT the place to be discussing this issue, which is totally OFF topic!  If you want to discuss these issues, create a new thread.  This thread is not to debate the writings of Paul and Luke vs. the words of Jesus.


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I keep forgetting I am a lawyer and it is my nature to argue and debate when I see where someone attempts to lead others down a path with a 'red herring' so to speak.  Go into any christian book store and you will see tons of books on all kinds of junk that, while being interesting, are of absolutly NO value to the understanding of how salvation works because they have been built upon a foundation that is not from Jesus Christ's words.  When reading what you wrote here I get the same sickening feeling in that you have wasted your time and effort in an attempt to (your goal) to battle the wits of those who believe in dispensational futurism. 

Is this true?

Offline Quasar

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[/quote=Lysimachus]]I am more than familiar with the Jesuit Illuminati plans to have Pseudo-Israel rebuild a Third Temple in Jerusalem.  If they do get to constructing such a temple, it will not be a fulfillment of true prophecy, but a COUNTERFEIT prophecy created by the Devil to distract the minds of the people away from the TRUE prophecy--that being Rome and the United States.  Not the Middle East.  Rebuilding such a Temple would be an INSULT Jehovah, and worse yet, re-instituting sacrifices which were FINISHED at the Cross!  Christ WAS the ultimate sacrifice. Our minds are now to be directed at the Atoning work of our Saviour and High Priest in the Heavenly Temple, NOT the earthly Temple.  To focus on an earthly temple is to focus on a kingdom of this world. And Jesus unequivocally stated "My kingdom is NOT of this world" (John 18:36), and He said it does "NOT come with observation" (Luke 17:20).  To direct our minds to the Middle East for an earthly temple is carnal, earthly, and worldly thinking.[/quote]

The following Scriptural facts refute your interpretation of the Bible, as is the case with many of your SDA interpretation!


The tribulation temple:
Matthew 24:15 - When you see the “abomination of desolation,” spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place…
2 Thessalonians 2:4 - "...so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God"
Revelation 11:1 - "...Go and measure the temple of God and the alter..."

The Millennial temple:
Ezekiel 43:7 - "...this is the place of my throne...This is where I will live among the Israelites forever."
Ezekiel 43:27 - …your priests will your burnt offerings and peace offerings on the altar, and I will accept you, declares the Lord.

Zechariah 6:12 - Here is the Man whose name is the Branch, and he will…build the temple of the Lord.
At the present time there is no temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, the location of both the first and second Jewish Temples. Instead, two Muslim shrines, The Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, stand on the Temple Mount. Meantime, the Jewish people to consider the Temple Mount to be the most sacred place for Jews in all the world. No wonder the Temple Mount is a political powder keg and must be part of any formula for peace in the Middle East!

According to the Bible, a temple will once again stand on the Temple Mount. How and when the Temple Mount will be available for a future temple remains to be seen. Biblical prophecy “buffs” have proposed all kinds of potential scenarios for how all of this could take place—everything from earthquakes to explosives to the collapse of the Temple Mount platform!

Some well-meaning Christians have felt that the biblical predictions of a future Temple should be spiritualized, saying that these prophecies refer to the Church or to the individual Christian. Indeed, 1 Corinthians 3:16 makes it quite clear that the Church, as the body of Christ, is the spiritual temple of the Holy Spirit. And in 1 Corinthians 6:19 we are taught that the physical body of every individual believer is to be honored and kept clean, because it is the temple of the Holy Spirit. But these wonderful New Testament truths do not alter the biblical predictions of a literal future Temple in Jerusalem.

The question of a future Temple gets more complicated when we realize that the Bible teaches that two temples are yet to stand on the Temple Mount in the future. First will come a Tribulation Temple, followed by a Millennium Temple which will be built when the Lord returns and sets up His kingdom on this earth. Let's look at the Scriptures dealing with these two future temples.

Here: http://www.growingchristians.org/dfgc/future.html

"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Quasar

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Scriptures that prove the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ on Earth

Matthew 19:28--And Jesus said unto them, Truly I say unto you, that ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Messieh comes in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 25:31--When the Messieh shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory.

This coming with power and great glory with his angels is well documented (Matthew 24:30-31). And that he sits on an earthly throne after this coming cannot be disproven. Right now, John saw him on a Throne in heaven. He is there as God and reigns as God on that throne. He has never ceased to be God and there has ever been a Kingdom of God in heaven. He said: Heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool. But he also said to the Apostles his throne would be upon this earth. He brought this heavenly Kingdom to earth and he will reign here in person as the heir of David's throne in the millennial.

2Peter 3:8--But beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

In verse 7 it appears Apostle Peter had given a prophecy of the very end of the world when it would be destroyed. Then in retrospect of a time before that event he gives us the prophecy of the thousand years and equates it as one day with the Lord. He urges us not to be ignorant of this time frame of a day being equal to a thousand years.

Revelation 20:4--And I saw thrones, and they that sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,and for the word of God,and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither has received his mark upon their foreheads, or upon their hands; and they lived and reigned with Messieh a thousand years.

Matthew 25:34--Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come ye blessed of God, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

1Corinthians 6:9--Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, etc. ect.

Revelation 21:7--They that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be their God, and they shall be my elect.

Revelation 5:10--And has made us unto God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 20:6--Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Messieh, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

It is obvious that the 1,000 years follows the resurrection. It is also obvious the 1,000 years is a time when death has no power over the Saints of God. This can only be after the second coming at which time it is said:

1Corinthians 15:54--So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

It is further obvious that the 1,000 years is after the first physical resurrection of those dead, after death has no power, that the resurrected Saints reign as Priests of God for one thousand years. The sequence must remain intact and in sequential order. The same 1,000 years the devil is bound is the same 1,000 years those who were martyred for not taking the mark of the beast are physically raised in a resurrection and reign with the Lord.

To say the 1,000 years runs concurrently or parallel with the Church is to say the physical resurrection of those who were martyred is past. The amillennialist have yet to prove there are resurrected martyrs in the world and have been here since their alleged 1,000 began. Such is demanded if the spiritualization of the 1,000 years as the Church age is correct. Are there many thousands of Saints who already have immortality and are deathless, and that they are now as Priest reigning with Messieh upon the earth?

The present Ministry of the Church are not reigning and are forbidden to be Lord's over God's heritage. They are nor deathless. And the resurrection and immortality have not come yet because Jesus has not returned. To have immortality here now is to say that Jesus has come already. And if he has, what of their end of the world when he comes. Why are we still here? Why has not the world ended? Please read on now as I bring forth more on this important endtime subject.

By Pastor G. Reckart

From:  http://jesus-messiah.com/apologetics/catholic/amill1.html

"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Quasar

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Rapture And Second Coming Contrasts
By Dr. Thomas Ice, PhD.

Rapture/Translation 2nd Coming/ Estab. Kingdom

1. Translation of all believers. 1. No translation at all.
2. Translated saints go to heaven. 2. Translated saints return to earth.
3. Earth not judged. 3. Earth judged & righteousness established.
4. Imminent, any-moment. 4. Follows definite predicted signless signsincluding tribulation.
5. Not in the Old Testament. 5. Predicted often in Old Testament.
6. Believers only. 6. Affects all men.
7. Before the day of wrath. 7 Concluding the day of wrath.
8. No reference to Satan. 8. Satan bound.
9. Christ comes for His own. 9. Christ comes with His own.
10. He comes in the air. 10. He comes to the earth.
11. He claims His bride. 11 He comes with His bride.
12. Only His own see Him. 12 Every eye shall see Him.
13. Tribulation begins. 13 Millennial Kingdom begins.

John Walvoord concludes that these "contrasts should make it evident that the translation of the church is an event quite different in character and time from the return of the Lord to establish His kingdom, and confirms the conclusion that the translation takes place before the tribulation."


Paul speaks of the rapture as a "mystery" [1 Cor. 15:51-54], that is a truth not revealed until its disclosure by the apostles (Col. 1:26), making it a separate event, while the second coming was predicted in the Old Testament [Dan. 12:1-3; Zech. 12:10; 14:4].

The movement for the believer at the rapture is from earth to heaven, in Jn.14:2-4 and 28, while it is from heaven to earth at the second advent, in Mt.24:30-31 and Rev.19:14. At the rapture, the Lord comes for his saints [1 Thess. 4:16], while at the second coming the Lord comes with His saints [1 Thess. 3:13]. At the rapture, the Lord comes only for believers, but His return to the earth will impact all people. The rapture is a translation event where the Lord takes believers "to the Father's house" in heaven [John 14:2-4 and 28], while at the second coming believers return from heaven to the earth [Matt. 24:30-31; Rev.19:14; Zech.14:4-5 and Jude 14]. Hindson says, "The different aspects of our Lord's return are clearly delineated in the scriptures themselves. The only real issue in the eschatological debate is the time interval between them."<<<

When does the rapture of the Church take place?

That was the exact purpose of Paul's second epistle to the Thessalonians, because they had received a forged letter as if it had come from Paul telling them the Day of the Lord had already come, and they were still on the earth, after Paul had taught them they would be caught up to be with the Lord in the clouds of the air, before the Day of the Lord begins. In this context, Paul has used the term, "Day of the Lord" to mean, the seven years of tribulation.
The key to the timing of the rapture of the Church is in 2 Thes.2:1-4 and 7-8, as recorded below:

"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him [A direct reference to 1Thes.4:17] "...we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR."], we ask you, brothers," Vs 1."not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The seven years of tribulation] has already come." Vs 2.

"Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord/seven year tribulation] will not come until the "apostasia" [Greek term for "departure"/CAUGHT UP, from the original translation] occurs [first] and the man of lawlessness is revealed [The antichrist], the man doomed to destruction." Vs 3. [See added details below].

"He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4.

In confirmation of verse 3. above is the following:

"For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The one body of Christ/His Church - as they will depart/CAUGHT UP in vs 3.] is taken out of the way."

A review of vs 3. in the issue pertaining to why our present day Bibles are using the terms "falling away," "apostasy" and "the rebellion," for the Greek term "apostasia," is IMO, due to alterations made to the KJV by the RCC, in both verses 2 and 3, to read, "Day of Christ," and "apostasy," respectively, to suit their theological belief and teachings of Amillennialism, which denies any rapture as well as the Millennial reign of Christ on the earth.

Changing "the Day of the Lord" to the "Day of Christ," as the translators of the KJV have done, changes the prophecy from a seven year period of time, which is in full confirmation of Dan.9:27, to a one day scene, of Jesus second coming, instead of the rapture Paul wrote about. Then in the alteration in the intended meaning of the Greek term, "apostasia," to one of its other meanings, completely altering the meaning again, from a rapture of the Church to a supposed apostasy of the Church. See the translation history of the term "apostasia" in vs 3, in the following:

The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3:

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy [As altered in the KJV] comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

The original translation of 2 Thessalonians 2:3:

Verse 2 is: Day of the Lord, not Day of Christ [/b][As altered by the KJV]! The Day of the Lord begins in this instance with the Pre-trib rapture of the Church and never ends thereafter.

Verse 3. "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the departure occurs [first] and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction."

2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated " apostasy," is a reference to the rapture and should be translated " departure." Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

The Meaning of Apostasia and Discessio:

The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2 Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, " that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia)Moses." The word is a Greek compound of apo " from" and istemi " stand." Thus, it has the core meaning of " away from" or " departure." The Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon defines apostasia first as " defection, revolt;" then secondly as " departure, disappearance." [1] Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports the basic meaning of departure in the following:

The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8;13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men(1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from the body [2 Cor. 12:8] , and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13).[2]

" It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the original languages," concludes Daniel Davey, " that the word meaning of apostasia is defined as departure." [3] Paul Lee Tan adds the following:

What precisely does Paul mean when he says that " the falling away" (2:3) must come before the tribulation? The definite article " the" denotes that this will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of Sin. The Greek word for " falling away" , taken by itself, does not mean religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean " to fall," as the Greeks have another word for that. [pipto, I fall; TDI] The best translation of the word is " to depart." The apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which he calls " the departure," and which will occur just before the start of the tribulation. This is the rapture of the church.

So the word has the core meaning of departure and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such as departure from the faith.

Translation History of apostasia and Discessio:

The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384 A.D.); Tyndale Bible (1526 A.D.); Coverdale Bible (1535 A.D.); Cranmer Bible (1539 A.D.); Breeches Bible (1576 A.D.); Beza Bible (1583 A.D.); Geneva Bible (1608 A.D.) .[5] This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.'" Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of " departure" in 1611 A.D.?

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given. [IMO and highly suspect, because of the RCC Amilliannial theology].


« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 12:19:53 PM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.





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