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Author Topic: The 70 Weeks of Daniel 9 - Vindicating the Historical-Messianic Computation  (Read 15768 times)

Offline Quasar

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The correct annalysis of the 70 Weeks prophecy in Dan.9:24-27 is the following, as previously posted followed by the full endorsement of esteemed theologiand, professors, teachers deans, authors ministers and publishers:

Seventy Weeks Are Determined Upon Thy People!
The following is a complete analysis Of the amazing prophecy found in the book of Daniel. We will begin in Dan.9:24 where the angel Gabriel is giving this prophecy to Daniel, the prophet.

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

1. Referrence here is to what God has decreed upon Daniel's people, Israel. (It has nothing at all to do with the church!)

2. See Gen.29:27 to explain that this biblical term of "one week" equals seven years. So the 70 weeks here, represents a total of 490 years, or 7 X 70.)

Vs.25. "Know, therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; (49 + 420 + 14 = 483 years, covering 69 of the 70 weeks,) the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." (See Neh.1:6.)

According to the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England, the exact date of King Artaxerxes, of Persia, gave the decree for some of the Israeli exiles to return to Jerusalem on March 14, 446 BC.

From the 69 weeks (Of years) from above, or 483 years, multiplied by the 360 days of the Hebrew year, equals 173,880 days.

Vs.26. "And after threescore and two weeks..."[Which followed the first 7 weeks, or 49 years of vs 25, referring to the dedication of the completed building of the city and walls of Jerusalem, in the 32nd year of the Persian king, Artaxerxes, in the 7th month, [Neh.5:14 and 8:1] leaving 62 more weeks, or 434 more years [For a total of 69 weeks, or 483 years] to the triumphant entry of Jesus into Jerusalem]. Culminating in a total of 69 weeks, or 483 years from the Persian King, Artaxerxes Decree on March 14th, 446 BC.) and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary, and the end of it shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

After Jesus has been crucified, the Roman (prince) Titus comes with his legions and destroys Jerusalem and the second temple in 70 AD, after bitter fighting, scattering Israel and the Jewish people into their diaspora.
To establish the time Jesus began His ministry, and approximate age, we find the evidence in Luke 3:1 and 3:23.

Lk.3:1. "Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilot being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip, tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Thrachonitis and Lysanias, the tetrarch of Abilene, Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness."

Which brings us to 29 AD and Jesus is about 30 years of age.

Lk.3:23. "And Jesus Himself began to be about 30 years of age, (When all Jewish priests begin their priesthood.) being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, who was the son of Heli,"

Back to Daniel's prophecy of 70 weeks of years decreed upon his people, for a moment. We have determined as we fast close on all of the 69 weeks, 483 years, and 173,880 days in the Hebrew 360 day year as to exactly where it will take us.

Jn.12:12-13. "On the next day many people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, Took branches of palm trees and and went forth to meet Him, and cried Hosanna! Blessed is the King of Israel, that cometh in the name of the Lord." April 6th 32 AD. (According to the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.)

Exactly 173,880 days from King Artaxerxes of Persia, decree of March 14,446 BC. [From Neh.2:1-8. Based on the 360 day Hebrew year. Which makes no difference whatever from a 365 day year, when all the necessary corrections are made].

360 X 483 = 173,880 days.
1. 32 years [AD] X 365 days in our year = 11,680 days.
2. 445 years [BC] X 365 days in our year = 162,425 days.
3. Total 174,105 days divided by 365 = 477 years.
4. Plus 24 days between the date of the decree in 445 BC and Jesus cut-off in 32 AD = 477 years, 24 days
5. Subtract one year because there is no year zero between 1 BC and 1 AD. = 476 years, 24 days.
6. 476 years X 365 days = 173,740 days +24 = 173,764 Days
7. Add days of the leap years over 476 years. Divided by 4 = 119 days = 173,883 days
8. Subtract 1/128 Calendar year day for every solar year: Leap year omitted every 128 years.= -3 days
= 173,880 days!

Which reveals the 360 day prophetic year of Israel is the very same as our present 365 day year when all the corrections have been made to the latter.

The 70th week of Daniel's prophecy, of the final 7 years, is the Tribulation, or Jacob's Trouble (Jer.30:7.) which will conclude the 490 year prophecy decreed upon his people, with a 2,000 year parenthetic in between, that covers the entire church age!

Dan.9:27. "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."


A. Frank L. Gaebelein, A.M., Litt.D., Headmaster Emiritus, The Stoney Brook School.

B. William Culbertson, D.D., L.L.D., President, Moody Bible Institute.

C. Charles L. Feinberg, ThD., PhD., Dean, Talbot Theological Seminary.

D. Allan A. Mac Rae, A.M., PhD., President, Biblical School of Theology.

E. Clarence E. Mason, Jr., Th.M., D.D., Dean, Philadelphia College of Bible.

F. Alva J. Mc Clain, Th.M., D.D., President Emeritus, Grace Theological Seminary.

G. Wilbur M. Smith, D.D., Editor, Peloubet's Select Notes.

H. John F. Walvoord, A.M., Th.D., President, Dallas Theological Seminary.

I. C.I. Scofield, D.D., Editor, Scofield Bible.

J. E. Schuyler English, Litt.D., Chairman.

The above theologians represent the Editorial Committee of the 1967 edition of the Scofield Bible.

Others who also endorse the theology posted on this thread are:Charles Stanley, Baptist minister, Chuck

Missler, Koinonia House, Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Hay, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Billie Graham, TV ministry, Franklin Graham, TV minstry, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker, Dr. Norbert Lieth and the Jews for Jesus.


Quasar


« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 12:45:25 AM by Quasar »
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Offline Eyes2C

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Check this out-- The "times" of Daniel--

http://home.earthlink.net/~bobseller1/id5.html

Offline Lysimachus

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Part 1

The correct annalysis of the 70 Weeks prophecy in Dan.9:24-27 is the following, as previously posted followed by the full endorsement of esteemed theologiand, professors, teachers deans, authors ministers and publishers:

Seventy Weeks Are Determined Upon Thy People!
The following is a complete analysis Of the amazing prophecy found in the book of Daniel. We will begin in Dan.9:24 where the angel Gabriel is giving this prophecy to Daniel, the prophet.

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

1. Referrence here is to what God has decreed upon Daniel's people, Israel. (It has nothing at all to do with the church!)

2. See Gen.29:27 to explain that this biblical term of "one week" equals seven years. So the 70 weeks here, represents a total of 490 years, or 7 X 70.)

Vs.25. "Know, therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; (49 + 420 + 14 = 483 years, covering 69 of the 70 weeks,) the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." (See Neh.1:6.)

According to the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England, the exact date of King Artaxerxes, of Persia, gave the decree for some of the Israeli exiles to return to Jerusalem on March 14, 446 BC. [you mean 445 B.C.]

From the 69 weeks (Of years) from above, or 483 years, multiplied by the 360 days of the Hebrew year, equals 173,880 days.

...<snip>...

360 X 483 = 173,880 days.
1. 32 years [AD] X 365 days in our year = 11,680 days.
2. 445 years [BC] X 365 days in our year = 162,425 days.
3. Total 174,105 days divided by 365 = 477 years.
4. Plus 24 days between the date of the decree in 445 BC and Jesus cut-off in 32 AD = 477 years, 24 days
5. Subtract one year because there is no year zero between 1 BC and 1 AD. = 476 years, 24 days.
6. 476 years X 365 days = 173,740 days +24 = 173,764 Days
7. Add days of the leap years over 476 years. Divided by 4 = 119 days = 173,883 days
8. Subtract 1/128 Calendar year day for every solar year: Leap year omitted every 128 years.= -3 days
= 173,880 days!


Which reveals the 360 day prophetic year of Israel is the very same as our present 365 day year when all the corrections have been made to the latter.

Welcome again Quasar!

I thought surely you would have something new and refreshing to offer on the table.  But lo and behold, it appears that you resort to repetition to try and console yourself that perhaps maybe in repeating and rehashing what you have already stated, it might "somehow sustain" your argument--all the while turning a blind eye to the overwhelming and crippling errors I have already pointed out.

But I will not resort myself to your level by mimicking your tactics and copying and pasting the same information. Honest readers will deal with the data I have thus far presented, and will not conclude that "oh, Quasar somehow must be right because look how well his post was written!". If one is interested in seeing how I have categorically dealt with your arguments, all they need to do is go back one page and there it is.  It matters not how many times one repeats error, it will never convert error into truth. You can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth!

As I have already stated, Sir Robert Anderson's calculations were wrong. No matter how you try to slice it, cut it, or dice it, you cannot compute 173,880 days between March 14, 445 B.C. and April 6, 32 A.D.!

Anderson mixed two calendars in his calculation, and you cannot do this. He used Gregorian years when calculating the number of days between Julian dates.  If we use Julian dates, we must use Julian years, and if we use Gregorian dates, we must use Gregorian years. That's the bottom line. There's no room for wiggle here.

Thus, the actual number comes out to be 173,883, not 173,880. Therefore, no matter how hard you try, you cannot make this number workout, as it simply does not exist. I explained to you that, although at first these numbers appear to workout, upon close inspection they do not and cannot workout because the very first problem that jumps out at you is that the Julian Calendar never omits 1 leap year every 128 years. The Julian calendar always has 1 leap year every 4 years. Thus, if the individual is Julian dates for the beginning and ending of the 69 weeks, you will NEVER be able to subtract those 3 days!

As I have stated previously on Post #5, I went on to address your objection that "Julian and Gregorian calendars were not known in 457 B.C.", and explained to you that the Julian calendar was in use in 27 A.D. But I showed your objection to be irrelevant since historians and astronomers often date ancient dates using the Julian calendar extending it backward in time.  Anderson is clearly using Julian dates, not Jewish dates, when he gives the dates of March 14, 445 B.C. and April 6, 32 A.D. When he calculated the number of days between these two dates, he calculates as if those dates were Gregorian dates rather than Julian. And that is PRECISELY the problem--which you have yet not grappled with. 

So even if we converted Anderson's dates into Jewish dates, we would still have to conclude that he was off in the number of days he calculated as being between those two dates.

I gave you the following research paper which you ignored:

 "An Examination of Anderson's Chronological Errors Regarding Daniel 9's First 69 Weeks." Dispensational eschatology, as portrayed on Left Behind, depends on an adequate explanation of the first 69 weeks. Anderson is often quoted, and yet his theories are contradicted by plain facts about calendars and history.

You would do yourself well to read it if you want accurate, and irrefutable math.  Trust me on this one Quasar--the most LEARNED dispensationalists as of yet have not been able to refute Pickle's calculations, and now many Dispensationalists are beginning to accept the 457 B.C. date for the commencement of the 69 weeks, because the numbers presented are simply incontestable. It is airtight.

Quote
Vs.26. "And after threescore and two weeks..."[Which followed the first 7 weeks, or 49 years of vs 25, referring to the dedication of the completed building of the city and walls of Jerusalem, in the 32nd year of the Persian king, Artaxerxes, in the 7th month, [Neh.5:14 and 8:1] leaving 62 more weeks, or 434 more years [For a total of 69 weeks, or 483 years] to the triumphant entry of Jesus into Jerusalem]. Culminating in a total of 69 weeks, or 483 years from the Persian King, Artaxerxes Decree on March 14th, 446 BC.) and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary, and the end of it shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

After Jesus has been crucified, the Roman (prince) Titus comes with his legions and destroys Jerusalem and the second temple in 70 AD, after bitter fighting, scattering Israel and the Jewish people into their diaspora.
To establish the time Jesus began His ministry, and approximate age, we find the evidence in Luke 3:1 and 3:23.

Lk.3:1. "Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilot being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip, tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Thrachonitis and Lysanias, the tetrarch of Abilene, Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness."

Which brings us to 29 AD and Jesus is about 30 years of age.

Lk.3:23. "And Jesus Himself began to be about 30 years of age, (When all Jewish priests begin their priesthood.) being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, who was the son of Heli,"

Back to Daniel's prophecy of 70 weeks of years decreed upon his people, for a moment. We have determined as we fast close on all of the 69 weeks, 483 years, and 173,880 days in the Hebrew 360 day year as to exactly where it will take us.

Jn.12:12-13. "On the next day many people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, Took branches of palm trees and and went forth to meet Him, and cried Hosanna! Blessed is the King of Israel, that cometh in the name of the Lord." April 6th 32 AD. (According to the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.)

1. The prophecy calls forth: "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks [69 weeks]." (Daniel 9:25)  The word "Messiah" means "the anointed one". At Jesus' baptism, He was "anointed with the Holy Spirit" (See Acts 10:37,38; Luke 4:18; 3:21,22).  There is no exegetical basis, whatsoever, to attribute the phrase "Messiah the Prince" to Christ's triumphal entry into Jerusalem on a donkey.  This triumphal entry took place at the mid-point of the 70th week, a few days prior to His crucifixion (69 1/2 weeks had transpired since the commencement of this prophetic time). The 69 weeks terminate at Christ's anointing at His baptism. Immediately after Christ's baptism, He said: "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand." (Mark 1:15). Which "time" was Christ referring to?  He was referring to the 69 weeks mentioned in Daniel 9:25. It was at the end of this 69 weeks that Christ began His ministry to "make strong the covenant with many for one week" (Daniel 9:27) (See also Matt. 26:28; Mk. 14:24)

2. The 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar was not 29 A.D., but 27 A.D. -- if recognizing John's account as commencing Tiberius' reign at his joint reign, not sole reign.  Jesus was born, not around 1 B.C., but about 3 B.C. or before. (More data on this can be found here: What Year was Jesus Born? The following article by Fowler argues for a precise date of 3 B.C. here: When Was Jesus Born.) This would make him about 30 years old in 27 A.D., not 29 A.D. Those Dispensationalists who place the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius in 29 A.D. are directly adding 15 years to the commencement of Tiberius' sole reign date of 14 A.D., but this does not allow for inclusive years. Note that 14 A.D. is the 1st year and 15 is the 2nd, 16 = 3rd, 17 = 4th, 18 = 5th, 19 = 6th, 20 = 7th, 21 = 8th, 22 = 9th, 23 = 10th, 24 = 11th, 25 = 12th, 26 = 13th, 27 = 14th and 28 A.D. is the 15th, not 29 A.D.  Now while Tiberius is said to have reigned from 14 A.D. to 37 A.D., we must remember that 14 A.D. is the starting year of his sole reign. But after his adoption in 4 B.C., Tiberius was granted tribunician (legislative) power and proconsular (military) power and in 13 B.C., his powers were made equal to that of Augustus effectively making him ruling co-emperor. So when Augustus died in 14 B.C., the question of succession was not an issue as Tiberius already had the powers of emperor. The 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar using his sole reign would make the baptism of Jesus in 28 A.D. Many get 29 A.D. because they forget to use inclusive years. Thus the calculation should actually be 14 A.D. + - 1 year = 28 A.D. But this of course cannot be reconciled with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. But if you allow for the fact that he ruled jointly with Augustus for one year prior to 14 A.D., then that would make the baptism of Jesus to be one year earlier in 27 A.D. This then aligns with the other evidence for the starting date of 457 B.C. to rebuild Jerusalem.

If you doubt this data, you're welcome to verify it yourself in the following Encyclopedias:

Augustus: Encyclopaedia Britannica. 2009. Encyclopaedia Britannica Online. 16 Jun. 2009
http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/imperialism/notes/augustus.html
"Although Augustus was now feeling his age, these years in association with Tiberius were marked by administrative innovations: ... and the conversion of the hitherto occasional appointment of prefect of the city (praefectus urbi) into a permanent office (AD 13). When, in the same year, the powers of Augustus were renewed for 10 years--such renewals had been granted at intervals throughout the reign--Tiberius was made his equal in every constitutional respect...."

Tiberius: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberius
"The death of Gaius in AD 4 initiated a flurry of activity in the household of Augustus. Tiberius was adopted as full son and heir and in turn, he was required to adopt Augustus' nephew, Germanicus, the son of his brother Drusus and Augustus' niece Antonia Minor. Along with his adoption, Tiberius received tribunician power as well as a share of Augustus's maius imperium, something that even Marcus Agrippa may never have had. In AD 7, Agrippa Postumus was disowned by Augustus and banned to the island of Planasia, to live in solitary confinment. Thus, when in AD 13, the powers held by Tiberius were made equal, rather than second, to Augustus's own powers, he was for all intents and purposes a "co-princeps" with Augustus, and in the event of the latter's passing, would simply continue to rule without an interregnum or possible upheaval. Augustus died in AD 14, at the age of 76...."

As we can see, Luke would have counted from Tiberius' joint reign if we are to correctly reconcile the dates:
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 04:29:10 PM by Lysimachus »

Offline Lysimachus

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Part 2

Quote
Exactly 173,880 days from King Artaxerxes of Persia, decree of March 14,446 BC. [From Neh.2:1-8. Based on the 360 day Hebrew year. Which makes no difference whatever from a 365 day year, when all the necessary corrections are made].

You keep saying March 14, 446 B.C., when I believe you clearly mean March 14, 445. As I have already shown, a "prophetic year" of 360 days does not line up with the numbers. We must resort to actual Solar years of 365.2422 days.  In fact, actual Jewish Years were based on Solar Years, and the Jews had to update their calendar every several years to keep up with the sun. Also, a full lunar year is never 360 days long.  It is always 354.36 days. 

Quote
The 70th week of Daniel's prophecy, of the final 7 years, is the Tribulation, or Jacob's Trouble (Jer.30:7.) which will conclude the 490 year prophecy decreed upon his people, with a 2,000 year parenthetic in between, that covers the entire church age!

Nowhere in the entire writings of Holy Writ will you ever find the remotest allusion to the "1 week" of Daniel 9:27 being a period of tribulation. It simply does not exist. There will be a Time of Trouble such as never was--and it is the CHURCH that will go through Jacob's Time of Trouble, NOT LITERAL ISRAEL! PERIOD.  Also, there is no such thing as a 2000 year GAP between the 69th and 70th week.  This erroneous construing of the 70 weeks originates with Hippolytus, who's views of the decapitated 70th week were influenced by the uninspired Hellenistic Jews who wrote their mythical, psuedepigraphal books of junk in the intertestamental period--who's minds were permeated with Hellenistic philosophy from the Judeo-Alexandrian timeframe.  The Great Hermetic Dragon, the Devil himself, already set the stage with these mythical writers, to later construe the pure teachings of God's word, and to distort and prevent people from ascertaining and identifying the true Antichrist of Bible Prophecy---which is none-other than the Papal System sitting in Rome, who persecuted the saints for a period of 1260 years from 538 A.D. to 1798 A.D.! The mortal wound was struck by the sword of France, but this wound will finish healing which will lead into the final tribulation of God's people at the very end of time.

Quote
Dan.9:27. "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

And this was fulfilled in 31. A.D., when in the midst of the week, Christ put an end to the sacrificial system, when all meaning and value to this ceremony ceased, and type met antitype. And for rejecting the Messiah, and the overspreading of abominations, Christ declared their house "desolate" (Matt. 23:38) (spiritually desolate that is), even up to the time when the consummation (destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.) and that determined, would be poured out upon that which was already spiritually desolate.  Since Christ declared the House of Israel desolate, it would remain destitute of God's blessings even up to the Second Coming of Christ.

And lo, we cry ICHABOD!  The Glory of God has departed Israel, and will NEVER return!  They are DOOMED as a nation, for ever!

Only Jews as individuals now can be saved by being grafted into the parent stock of Israel, which is Jesus Christ, represented in His Church--His body.


Quote
A. Frank L. Gaebelein, A.M., Litt.D., Headmaster Emiritus, The Stoney Brook School.

B. William Culbertson, D.D., L.L.D., President, Moody Bible Institute.

C. Charles L. Feinberg, ThD., PhD., Dean, Talbot Theological Seminary.

D. Allan A. Mac Rae, A.M., PhD., President, Biblical School of Theology.

E. Clarence E. Mason, Jr., Th.M., D.D., Dean, Philadelphia College of Bible.

F. Alva J. Mc Clain, Th.M., D.D., President Emeritus, Grace Theological Seminary.

G. Wilbur M. Smith, D.D., Editor, Peloubet's Select Notes.

H. John F. Walvoord, A.M., Th.D., President, Dallas Theological Seminary.

I. C.I. Scofield, D.D., Editor, Scofield Bible.

J. E. Schuyler English, Litt.D., Chairman.

The above theologians represent the Editorial Committee of the 1967 edition of the Scofield Bible.

Others who also endorse the theology posted on this thread are:Charles Stanley, Baptist minister, Chuck

Missler, Koinonia House, Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Hay, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Billie Graham, TV ministry, Franklin Graham, TV minstry, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker, Dr. Norbert Lieth and the Jews for Jesus.


Quasar

Tis such a pity that so many "bright" scholars couldn't even get their math straight. One thing is for sure, the theologians from Biblical Research Institute and Adventist Theological Society would make minced meet out of their work. In fact, they already have, but false prophets from TBN simply turn a blind eye and would rather jump up and down and flop on the floor like fish on dry land, uttering quack gibberish they like to term as "tongues"--an event that stems from the Irvingite "tongues" movement.  Sadly, most of these theologians do not even know what hit them.  All we can do is pray that they will wake up to reality, and see that they have fallen hook-line-and-sinker for an ideology that was created by the Jesuits in the Counter-Reformation to remove the stigma of identifying the Papal System as the Antichrist.  Sadly, the Dispensational world has fallen for this deadly, and horrendous tripe setup by their most learned Jesuit doctors.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 05:13:39 PM by Lysimachus »

Offline Quasar

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Part 2

You keep saying March 14, 446 B.C., when I believe you clearly mean March 14, 445. As I have already shown, a "prophetic year" of 360 days does not line up with the numbers. We must resort to actual Solar years of 365.2422 days.  In fact, actual Jewish Years were based on Solar Years, and the Jews had to update their calendar every several years to keep up with the sun. Also, a full lunar year is never 360 days long.  It is always 354.36 days. 

Nowhere in the entire writings of Holy Writ will you ever find the remotest allusion to the "1 week" of Daniel 9:27 being a period of tribulation. It simply does not exist. There will be a Time of Trouble such as never was--and it is the CHURCH that will go through Jacob's Time of Trouble, NOT LITERAL ISRAEL! PERIOD.  Also, there is no such thing as a 2000 year GAP between the 69th and 70th week.  This erroneous construing of the 70 weeks originates with Hippolytus, who's views of the decapitated 70th week were influenced by the uninspired Hellenistic Jews who wrote their mythical, psuedepigraphal books of junk in the intertestamental period--who's minds were permeated with Hellenistic philosophy from the Judeo-Alexandrian timeframe.  The Great Hermetic Dragon, the Devil himself, already set the stage with these mythical writers, to later construe the pure teachings of God's word, and to distort and prevent people from ascertaining and identifying the true Antichrist of Bible Prophecy---which is none-other than the Papal System sitting in Rome, who persecuted the saints for a period of 1260 years from 538 A.D. to 1798 A.D.! The mortal wound was struck by the sword of France, but this wound will finish healing which will lead into the final tribulation of God's people at the very end of time.

And this was fulfilled in 31. A.D., when in the midst of the week, Christ put an end to the sacrificial system, when all meaning and value to this ceremony ceased, and type met antitype. And for rejecting the Messiah, and the overspreading of abominations, Christ declared their house "desolate" (Matt. 23:38) (spiritually desolate that is), even up to the time when the consummation (destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.) and that determined, would be poured out upon that which was already spiritually desolate.  Since Christ declared the House of Israel desolate, it would remain destitute of God's blessings even up to the Second Coming of Christ.

And lo, we cry ICHABOD!  The Glory of God has departed Israel, and will NEVER return!  They are DOOMED as a nation, for ever!

Only Jews as individuals now can be saved by being grafted into the parent stock of Israel, which is Jesus Christ, represented in His Church--His body.


Tis such a pity that so many "bright" scholars couldn't even get their math straight. One thing is for sure, the theologians from Biblical Research Institute and Adventist Theological Society would make minced meet out of their work. In fact, they already have, but false prophets from TBN simply turn a blind eye and would rather jump up and down and flop on the floor like fish on dry land, uttering quack gibberish they like to term as "tongues"--an event that stems from the Irvingite "tongues" movement.  Sadly, most of these theologians do not even know what hit them.  All we can do is pray that they will wake up to reality, and see that they have fallen hook-line-and-sinker for an ideology that was created by the Jesuits in the Counter-Reformation to remove the stigma of identifying the Papal System as the Antichrist.  Sadly, the Dispensational world has fallen for this deadly, and horrendous tripe setup by their most learned Jesuit doctors.



It's too bad those who make claims to being better versed in the Scriptures than these highly esteemed Bible College Presidents; deans; teachers; authors and publishers, who all fully support the 360 day Hebrew prophetic year:

1. Frank L. Gaebelein, A.M., Litt.D., Headmaster Emiritus, The Stoney Brook School; 2. William Culbertson, D.D., L.L.D., President, Moody Bible Institute; 3. Charles L. Feinberg, ThD., PhD., Dean, Talbot Theological Seminary; 4. Allan A. Mac Rae, A.M., PhD., President, Biblical School of Theology; 5. Clarence E. Mason, Jr., Th.M., D.D., Dean, Philadelphia College of Bible; 6. Alva J. Mc Clain, Th.M., D.D., President Emeritus, Grace Theological Seminary; 7. Wilbur M. Smith, D.D., Editor, Peloubet's Select Notes; 8. John F. Walvoord, A.M., Th.D., President, Dallas Theological Seminary; 9. C.I. Scofield, D.D., Editor, Scofield Bible; 10. Editorial Committee Chairman, J. E. Schuyler English, Litt.D.


Chuck Missler, Koinonia House, Charles Stanley, Baptist minister, Zola Levitt, Levitt's Ministries, Miles Weiss, Zola Levitt's Ministries, Moishe Rosen, Jew's For Jesus Org., David Bickner, Jew's For Jesus Org., Mitch Glaser, His Chosen People Minisries Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Haye, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker and Dr. Norbert Lieth.


THE 360 DAY PROPHETIC YEAR   AND   JUBILEES [49 YEARS] AND GRAND JUBLEES [490 YEARS]

The fact that the prophets understood a year as 360 days is well attested. God created the sun to mark the seasons and years. He made the moon to mark the days. There are 354.37 days in a lunar year (of 12 moons/months), and 365.24 days in a solar year; together they average 360 days.

365.24 (solar) + 354.37 (lunar) = 719.61 ÷ 2 = 359.8 days. (I.e., approx. 360 of prophetic.)

For the complete article: http://www.360calendar.com/bible-prophecy-360-days-calendar-not-edited.htm 

JUBILEES [49 YEARS] AND GRAND JUBLEES [490 YEARS]

The Jubilee System:

The bible says that the jubilee cycles began from the time that Israel (Jacob's descendants) entered the land of Canaan in 1406 BC, (Lev. 25:2).

Jubilees are spaced at 49 + 49 + 49 years, etc., not 50 + 50 + 50 years, etc.

A jubilee is seven cycles of seven years, with the 50th year being the jubilee year, but not so as to break the on-going seven-year Sabbath cycles. Thus, ten jubilees amount to 490 years, not 500, as the prophecy of Daniel 9 proves. (Israel kept both seventh-day Sabbaths and seventh-year Sabbaths. In Daniel 9, weeks of days and weeks of years blend together as one prophecy and is an important clue to understand the jubilees. We elaborate further concerning Daniel's prophecy of the "seven times seventy" a little later. The ancient apocryphal "Book of Jubilees", quoted in  likewise follows the  of Daniel 9.)

Leviticus 25 strongly suggests that the "seventh year" cycle will always land on the ongoing "seven-times-seven" (49th) year cycles of the jubilee. In Lev. 25, God could have called it "the forty-ninth year", but to make it clear that the "forty-ninth year" cycle will always be a "seventh-year Sabbath", the bible simply calls it "the seventh year", rather than the "forty-ninth year". God would not have referred to the jubilee year as "the seventh-year" if the regular seven-year Sabbath cycles did not stay in synchronization with the jubilee cycles of 49 years. If every jubilee were 50 years apart accumulatively, this would break the ongoing seven-year Sabbaths for the land and be inconsistent with the seven-day sabbaths that are certainly never interrupted.

Is the "50th year" to be reckoned inclusively or exclusively, or both?
 
Lev. 25:3-4 Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruits thereof; but in the seventh year shall be a Sabbath of solemn rest for the land, a Sabbath unto Jehovah: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.

Lev 25:8-11 "And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and there shall be unto thee the days of seven sabbaths of years, even forty and nine years. Then shalt thou send abroad the loud trumpet on the tenth day of the seventh month; in the day of atonement shall ye send abroad the trumpet throughout all your land. And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubilee unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family. A jubilee shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of the undressed vines."

Lev. 25:20-22 And if ye shall say, What shall we eat the seventh year? Behold, we shall not sow, nor gather in our increase; then I will command my blessing upon you in the sixth year, and it shall bring forth fruit for the three years. And ye shall sow the eighth year, and eat of the fruits, the old store; until the ninth year, until its fruits come in, ye shall eat the old store.

For the complete article: http://www.1260-1290-days-bible-prophecy.org/Jubilee-missing-Sabbaths.htm


Quasar
 
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 10:09:53 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Lysimachus

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Qausar,

The 70 weeks are not based on Jubilee years, they are based on Sabbatical years. Although the Jubilee ties into it, the evidence that the 70 weeks is in alignment with the Sabbatical cycles (7 years) is overwhelming. Just the fact that it says "70 weeks ", an allusion to sevens but couched in symbolic days, is a testament in and of it self.

Please read the following on the 70 weeks and the Sabbaticals:
http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/sabbatical-years.htm

Offline Quasar

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Qausar,

The 70 weeks are not based on Jubilee years, they are based on Sabbatical years. Although the Jubilee ties into it, the evidence that the 70 weeks is in alignment with the Sabbatical cycles (7 years) is overwhelming. Just the fact that it says "70 weeks ", an allusion to sevens but couched in symbolic days, is a testament in and of it self.

Please read the following on the 70 weeks and the Sabbaticals:
http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/sabbatical-years.htm


Quote
From the OP by Lysimachus:
As Historicists, we reject the Dispensational/Futurist "lunar-calendar reckoning" of 360 days to a year for the 70 weeks. We compute this timing using regular Solar years, or 365 days. After exhaustively weighing all the research and evidence, we do not believe Dispensationalists have any sound basis for using Lunar years.  Our rejection of the Lunar reckoning for the 70 weeks is not only based on historical research of the Lunar year usage, but also on sound mathematical principles using astronomical calendar calculators. Later in this dissertation, I will show why both Anderson's and Hoehner's Lunar calculations are seriously flawed, and that Solar reckoning is the only possible way to "make the numbers work out". The 70 weeks are in alignment with the sabbatical cycles, which in-turn is based on Solar years, not Lunar. To summarize, we believe that the historical and biblical evidence demands the first 69 weeks (483 years) to have commenced at the decree of Artaxerxes' 7th year in 457 B.C. for Ezra to build and restore Jerusalem (Ezra 7, as well as ancient accounts testify to this), not Artaxerxes' 20th year in 444 or 445 B.C. Counting 483 regular Solar years from this date brings us to 27 A.D.


The 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 must commence at Artaxerxes first decree in 457 B.C. during his 7th year, not his 20th year in 444 or 445 B.C. Contrary to criticism, the decree of 457 B.C. truly does meet the qualifications of the command/decree of Daniel 9:25 to "build and restore Jerusalem".



I have read your link and find no fault with the math in it, but you are in error for the starting date of Dan.9:24-27!

From the very beginning, according to the Scriptures, the starting date of your thread is in error and the very reason why it falls like dominoes! 
 
Ezra 7:7-8 reveals the decree by Artaxerxes was in his 7th year of reign, which by most expositors was in the year 457 B.C.  However, nowhere in the context of the passage of Scripture describing his decree, does it say a single thing about rebuilding Jerusalem, the walls and streets, from verses 11-20.  But rather, it is about restoring the gold and silver taken from the first temple by the Babylonians, and anything else needed FOR THE TEMPLE!
 
The only decree in the bible that the beginning of Daniels's prophecy in 9:24-27 is based on is that of the decree by Artaxerxes in his 20th year of reign, recorded in Neh.2:1-8, in 445/446 B.C.  The exact year is unknown to anyone, but is still a remarkable fit to it, anyway.  The same is true, whether there are 173,880 days in the 483 years of the 69 Weeks fulfilled, or 173,884, which by most expositors makes no difference at all, and none at all to me.


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Lysimachus

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Quote
I have read your link and find no fault with the math in it, but you are in error for the starting date of Dan.9:24-27!

From the very beginning, according to the Scriptures, the starting date of your thread is in error and the very reason why it falls like dominoes! 
 
Ezra 7:7-8 reveals the decree by Artaxerxes was in his 7th year of reign, which by most expositors was in the year 457 B.C.  However, nowhere in the context of the passage of Scripture describing his decree, does it say a single thing about rebuilding Jerusalem, the walls and streets, from verses 11-20.  But rather, it is about restoring the gold and silver taken from the first temple by the Babylonians, and anything else needed FOR THE TEMPLE!

The commencement of the 70 weeks cannot begin until the following criteria are met:

1. Commandment to restore Jerusalem
2. To Build Jerusalem
3. The Build the Plaza (aka, street) and Wall even in troublous times

(Daniel 9:25)

Ezra 6:14 -- "And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia."

Ezra 6:14 speaks of Cyrus, Darius, and Artaxerxes issuing a single decree, as if Cyrus began the process (Isa 44:28; 45:13), Darius affirmed it (Ezra 6:1), and Artaxerxes completed it (Ezra 6:14; 7; 9:9).

Why did the 70 weeks not begin with Cyrus' decree? Because the decree was a process that Cyrus began, Darius affirmed, and Artaxerxes completed, as indicated by the singular "commandment" in Ezra 6:14.

How did Artaxerxes complete it? Dan. 9 said "from the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem." Cyrus and Darius dealt with building, not restoring.

Isaiah 1:26 - "And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city."

The decree of Ezra 7 given in Artaxerxes' 7th year restored the judges to the point that they could enforce the law of God on pain of death, and thus completed the decree process foretold by Daniel.

For the most complete exhaustive work proving the these dates with razor sharp precision, take a look at the following in-depth analysis which completely repudiates and dismantles the Dispensational-Futurist teachings of Anderson and Hohner:

1. "An Examination of Anderson's Chronological Errors Regarding Daniel 9's First 69 Weeks.":
http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/sir-robert-anderson.htm - Dispensational eschatology, as portrayed on Left Behind, depends on an adequate explanation of the first 69 weeks. Anderson is often quoted, and yet his theories are contradicted by plain facts about calendars and history.

2. "Dr. Harold Hohner's Refinements of Anderson's Theory: Are They Sound?":
http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/harold-hoehner-70-weeks.htm - Hoehner and Ice's Calculations of Daniel 9's First 69 Weeks" - Acknowledges the four improvements over Anderson that Dr. Hoehner has provided. Examines the chronological difficulties still present in his calculations of Daniel 9's 70 weeks, and suggests an alternative interpretation unencumbered by such difficulties.
The only decree in the bible that the beginning of Daniels's prophecy in 9:24-27 is based on is that of the decree by Artaxerxes in his 20th year of reign, recorded in Neh.2:1-8, in 444/445 B.C.  The exact year is unknown to anyone, but is still a remarkable fit to it, anyway.  The same is true, whether there are 173,880 days in the 483 years of the 69 Weeks fulfilled, or 173,884, which by most expositors makes no difference at all, and none at all to me.

Notice when Ezra was singing a song of praise after the decree of 457 B.C.:

"For we were bondmen; yet our God hath not forsaken us in our bondage, but hath extended mercy unto us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us a reviving, to SET UP the HOUSE OF OUR GOD, and to REPAIR THE DESOLATIONS THEREOF, and to GIVE US A WALL IN JUDAH AND IN JERUSALEM." (Ezra 9:9)

Also, many fail to realize that the commandment to build and restore Jerusalem is not isolated to one single decree. The decree was a process that Cyrus began (Isaiah 44:28; 45:13 - concerning the rebuilding of Jerusalem), Darius affirmed (Ezra 6:1-13), and Artaxerxes completed, as indicated by the singular "commandment" (Ezra 6:14)

Notice:

"And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the COMMANDMENT of the GOD OF ISRAEL, and according to the COMMANDMENT of CYRUS, and DARIUS, and ARTAXERXES king of Persia." (Ezra 6:14)

These three commandments embodied the single "commandment" given in Ezra 6:14 given above and in Daniel 9:25 shown below:

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the COMMANDMENT to RESTORE and to BUILD JERUSALEM unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." (Daniel 9:25)

Notice that this commandment beginning with Cyrus:

Isaiah 44:28 - "That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to JERUSALEM, THOU SHALT BE BUILT; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid."

Isaiah 45:13 "I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: HE SHALL BUILD MY CITY, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts."

It is also noteworthy, according to Bob Pickle, that "Isaiah 1:26 predicted that the judiciary would be "restored," using the very same Hebrew word that is translated "restore" in Daniel 9:25. Artaxerxes' unique contribution to the commandment process was that he fully restored the judiciary by the decree of his seventh year, giving Jerusalem full authority to enforce the law of God (Ezra 7:25, 26)."

Therefore, 457 B.C. meets the criteria of...

1. Isaiah 1:26
2. Isaiah 44:28; 45:13
3. Ezra 4:7-23
4. Ezra 6:14
5. Ezra 7
6. Ezra 9:9
7. Daniel 9:25

Pickle also insightfully states...

"- Dating from Artaxerxes' 20th year has not been without difficulty in the past, since there is no decree recorded from that year in the book of Nehemiah.

- Daniel 9:25 specified two things for the decree that must be used for the beginning of the prophecy: 1) "restoring" and 2) "building" Jerusalem.

- It was prophesied of Cyrus that he would command Jerusalem to be built: "That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid" (Is. 44:28; cf. 45:13).

- It was also prophesied by Isaiah that God would "restore" Jerusalem's judiciary: "And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city" (Is. 1:26).

- While Cyrus' decree of Ezra 1:2-4 and Darius' decree of Ezra 6:1-12 called for building, it is only in Artaxerxes' decree from his 7th year, as recorded in Ezra 7:12-26, that we find a call for restoring the judges.

- The decrees of Cyrus, Darius, and Artaxerxes' 7th year are referred to in Ezra 6:14 as if they are but one decree. It is as if Cyrus began the decree and Artaxerxes finished it, which explains why Daniel 9:25 speaks of one "commandment to restore and build." Once this commandment process was complete, the 70 weeks could begin."

Starting to get clearer Quasar?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 12:09:28 AM by Lysimachus »

Offline Quasar

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Quote from: Lysimachus
Pickle also insightfully states...

"- Dating from Artaxerxes' 20th year has not been without difficulty in the past, since there is no decree recorded from that year in the book of Nehemiah.



Which is a false statement!  "In the month of Nisan in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes [445 B.C.] when wine was brought for him, I took the wine and gave it to the king.  I had not been sad in his presence before;  Neh.2:1 NIV.

"The king said to me, 'What is it you want?'  Then I prayed to the God of Heaven, and I answered the king, 'If it pleases the king and your servant has found favor in his sight, let him send me to the city in Judah [Jerusalem] where my fathers are buried so that I can rebuild it.'"  Neh.2:4-5  NIV.

"Then the king with the queen sitting beside him asked me, 'How long will your journey take, and when will you get back?'  It pleased the king to send me; so I set a time.  Neh.6  NIV.

"Then I also said to him, 'If it pleases the king, may I have letters to the governors of Trans-Euphrates, so that they will provide me safe-conduct until I arrive in Judah?  And may I have a letter to Asaph, keeper of the king's forest, so he will give me timber to make beams for the gates of the citadel by the temple and for the city wall and for the residency I will occupy?'  And because of the gracious hand of my God was upon me, the king granted my request."  Neh.5-8  NIV.

THE EZRA DATE OF 457 B.C.. WHY IT IS WRONG AND WHAT THE RELIGIOUS SPIRIT BEHIND THIS EARLIER DATE SEEKS TO DO IN CLOAKING THE FIRST HALF OF THE FUTURE 70TH WEEK.

Many scholars, including Sir Isaac Newton, have tried to attach the return under Ezra and the year 457 B.C. as the edict that started off the seventy weeks of Daniel. Time-lines beginning at this date, however, must use solar years to reach dates even approaching the time of Christ. The correct use of biblical years (69 x 7 = 483 x 360 = 476 yrs + 25 days) can set up a time-line from 457 B.C.. But it will fall short of the passion week and "Messiah the Prince" by a full 12 years. 

457 B.C.(-456 A.D.) <------- 476 yrs +25 days --------> 20 A.D.

Even erroneously using solar years instead of biblical (360 day) years falls short of the appearance of "Messiah the Prince" in 32 A.D. by a full 6 years.

457 B.C. (-456 A.D.)<-------483 yrs. ----------->26 A.D.

The numbers people try to use here are quite obviously way off the mark. They can't even get into the correct year let alone the month or day. But strangely, that does not stop these teachers. The spirits driving them seem to have an agenda. They insist on using the Ezra date for the beginning of the 70 weeks prophecy. They add a second error to their reckoning by attempting to tag the terminus of the 69 weeks with the baptism of Jesus and the beginning of His ministry. But even this is two years too early. Jesus began His ministry in the fall of 28 A.D. not 26 A.D.

How they think they can substitute His baptism for the true Palm Sunday appearance of Jesus as

"Messiah the Prince" which occurred at the end of Jesus's ministry three and a half years later is very intriguing. It suggests that a dark religious spirit is at work here. And that religious spirit has an agenda. Sure enough, as we begin to look into this matter we begin to see that agenda emerge from the fog. It is the false doctrine of partial preterism.  Partial preterism is a heresy. It claims that the 3.5 year ministry of Jesus has already fulfilled the first half of the 70th week. This effectively "cloaks" the first half of the 70th week. What are they hiding? They are "cloaking" the reign of the  harlot in the first half of the  7 years. The second half of the 70th Week is the 1260 day reign of the 666 Antichrist. (Rev.13:4)

 The Ezra edict, no matter how it is handled by false teachers still makes for a shoddy connection to their erroneous terminus for the 69 weeks, (which they have decided is at the baptism of Jesus). Their terminus of the 69 weeks is in 26 A.D.. This is clearly false. It is two years short of the real date for the baptism of Jesus. He began of His ministry in the autumn of 28 A.D. We know this date for certain. Dr. Luke tells us that the ministry of John the Baptist began

 ".... in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar's reign, .....". -Luke 3:1 AMPL BIBLE.

Tiberius began to reign in the summer of 14 A.D. so his 15th year would have begun in the summer of 28 A.D. John's ministry and Jesus's baptism would therefore have been in the fall of 28 A.D. The first of the four passovers Jesus would observe was in the following springtime of 29 A.D.

So what is really going on here with this attempt to connect the return of Ezra as the beginning of the 70 weeks? What is the religious spirit behind this erroneous interpretation of God's Word? What is its agenda?

 I will submit that the hidden agenda behind timelines starting with the Ezra revival date of 457 B.C. serve a manifold purpose.

 1.  The first thing this doctine attempts to do is to pull the 69 weeks backwards in time and bring the terminus of the 69 weeks back to the baptism of Jesus. Then they can continue the timeline on for another half a week and say that the first half of the 70th week was fulfilled in the 3.5 year ministry of Jesus. This makes for a 69 and a half week terminus rather than the correct terminus of 7 + 62 = 69 week terminus for Messiah the Prince as given in Daniel 9:27. The effect of this false doctrine is to relegate the first half of the 70th week to "past history". Thus they try to deny that there is a full future 70th week. They say that there is just a half of one.

2. The second effect of this false chronology is to lend credence to the outrageous contention that Jesus was that "prince" who confirmed (past tense) the "covenant with many for one week/seven" and not the future antichrist. This is effectively places a religious smokescreen over the future emergence of the peacemaking Antichrist at the beginning of the future 70th week. The spurious doctrine also hides the harlot who rides the 4th beast for the first half of the 70th week. This is religious skullduggery of the first order.

3. The next piece of dissinformation is to try to say that the 3.5 year ministry of Jesus fulfilled the first half of the 70th week and therefore we need not concern ourselves with it as a future reality. This, of course, is a lie. As Christian believers we should make it our business to seek to understand what this first half of the 70th week, is all about and what it means for us.

4. Another aspect to the partial preterist agenda is to shield from view the future antichrist. He will will come on the scene at the future Dan. 9:27 "covenant with many for one "seven", or seven year peace treaty involving the sovereignty of Israel. It is well known among evangelicals that this evil prince will be "revealed" as the "beast" midway through the 7 years. But this evil prince will rule behind the scenes with the harlot as global peacemaker during the first 3.5 years of the  future 70th week. Religious spirits would very much like that information to be "cloaked". We hear a lot about the tribulation in the 70th week. But virtually nothing about the harlot who rules during those first 3.5 years before the beast is revealed at midweek at the abomination of desolation.

5. There is a big smokescreen over the future harlot. She will reign over ten global geopolitical regions during the first 3.5 years of the future 70th week. The harlot rules as "beauty and the beast", -Rev.17, "sleeping with the enemy", her ultimate worldly lover/prince. The Apostle John saw her come to an awful end. -Rev.17

From:  http://endtimepilgrim.org/70wks3.htm

Would you like more of this in correcting the record,, Lysimachus ?


Quasar
 
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 12:25:25 PM by Quasar »
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Offline Lysimachus

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What is hilarious about your above response, is that all you need to do is scroll up to my previous responses, and those previous responses already refute your arguments in your last post.

Offline Quasar

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According to the Scriptures, your lengthy cut and pastes are a complete distortion of their proper and intended interpretation, as follows:

This is what your claim Artaxerxes decree in his 7the year of reign does to Daniels's 70 weeks of years prophecy:  457 B.C. - 444B.C. = 13 years:  A 4,680 day addition to 173,880 days from March 14, 444 B.C. to April 6, 32 A/D.  Completing 69 weeks of the 70 week prophecy; 483 years of the 490 year total.
 
Your claim of a 457 B.C. beginning of the prophecy in Artaxerxes 7th year would cause an error of 13 years. or 4,680 days when attempting to reconcile it to the 69 weeks X 7 years each, which total 483 years from Artaxerxes ONLY decree to rebuild Jerusalem, in His 20th year, in Neh.2:1-8.
 
By taking the 457 B.C. to the 69th week in Dan.9:26, you would have to add 4,680 days, or 13 years to the time frame laid out in verses 25-26, to reach Jesus triumphant entry into Jerusalem, on April 6, 32 A.D.  And 720 more days, or 2 more years added to that, in order to reach the 34 A.D. you claim is the ending of the 69th week.  Which does not square with the 69 X 7  formula of the prophecy in any sense of the word!  Beginning in 457 B.C. for 69 X 7 would end up in 19 A.D. + 2 more years to 34 A.D., or 720 more days, which translates into 21 A.D.!  Provide your mathematical formula to prove it, as I have from qualified sources!
 
From another source: http://www.360calendar.com/find_New_Year_on_360_calendar.html

Here:  http://endtimepilgrim.org/70wks3.htm
 
Here:  http://www.harvardhouse.com/prophetictech/new/linear.htm
 
 
Based on the 360 day Hebrew year. Which makes no difference whatever from a  365.2425 day year, when all the necessary corrections are made.
 
 360 X 483 = 173,880 days.
1. 32 years [AD] X 365 days in our year = 11,680 days.
2. 445 years [BC] X 365 days in our year = 162,425 days.
3. Total 174,105 days divided by 365 = 477 years.
4. Plus 24 days between the date of the decree in 445 BC and Jesus cut-off in 32 AD = 477 years, 24 days
5. Subtract one year because there is no year zero between 1 BC and 1 AD. = 476 years, 24 days.
6. 476 years X 365 days = 173,740 days +24 = 173,764 Days
7. Add days of the leap years over 476 years. Divided by 4 = 119 days = 173,883 days
8. Subtract 1/128 Calendar year day for every solar year: Leap year omitted every 128 years.= -3 days = 173,880 days!
 
Which reveals the 360 day prophetic year of Israel is the very same as our present  365.2425  day year when all the corrections have been made to the latter.
 
The 70th week of Daniel's prophecy, of the final 7 years, is the Tribulation, or Jacob's Trouble [Jer.30:7.] which will conclude the 490 year prophecy decreed upon his people, with a 2,000 year parenthetic in between, that covers the entire church age!


Who is the "he" who confirms the covenant with many, in verse 27?  It is clearly the Antichrist, who is the person who triggers the 70th week, AKA the 7 year tribulation!

Review the following:

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/topic/19401571/The-Rider-On-The-White-Horse-In-Rev62#.VWs319VViko

Here:  http://focusonthekingdom.org/articles/seventywks.htm

Here: http://www.preceptaustin.org/daniel_927.htm


As for your claim there is no gap between verses 69 and 70, and that the full 490 years of the prophecy has already been fulfilled is false!  Jesus disciples asked Him in Mt.24:3, what the sign of His [second] coming would be, and of the end of the age!  NONE OF WHICH HAS YET TAKEN PLACE!

Jesus Olivet discourse in Mt.24:4-31 is an amplification of Dan.9:27! 


Quasar
 
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 01:16:21 PM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Lysimachus

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Quasar,

I already refuted all the above.  From beginning to end.  Go back to my original posts, and you will see how I dismantled your calculations.  Bob Pickle thoroughly refuted you as well, but you are in denial.  You are just repeating yourself to give yourself the appearance of being knowledgeable, but it is deceptive. Go back and read all my original calculations.

Offline Quasar

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Re: The 70 Weeks of Daniel 9 - Vindicating the Historical-Messianic Computation
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2016, 12:13:28 AM »
You have refuted nothing except to express a distortion of the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel!  See the following facts exposing your views!  There is no way you can prove the results of the fulfilled part of the prophecy, of 69 weeks of seven years each, by trying to begin in Artaxerxes 7th year of reign, in 457 B.C., as the following will prove:

Artaxerxes decree to rebuild Jerusalem in his 20th year of reign, in Neh.2:1-8:

With the Sabbath Resurrection firmly pegged to A.D. 34, we can now show how the Daniel 9:24-25 prophecy of Messiah's first coming works out perfectly and naturally with the Sabbatical Year.   (The  online book locates numerous historical and biblical sabbatical year.)   I will will only discuss a most interesting synchronism here.   About 165 A.D. Rabbi Yose Halaphta wrote a book called Seder Olam, which was incorporated into the Talmud.   In this book he placed the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 69.   Although the date for the fall of Jerusalem was incorrect, Halaphta knew when the correct Sabbatical cycle was.  He work places the fall of Jerusalem in the first year of the seven year sabbath  cycle.   That makes A.D. 67/68 the Sabbath year.   

        The sabbath year comes regularly every seven years.   Accordingly, the very year before A.D. 34 is a sabbath year: 32/33 A.D.    Also if you keep counting backward, the year 445/444 B.C. was a sabbath year on the same cycle.    It was in this sabbath year, 445/444 B.C. that Nehemiah rebuilt the city of Jerusalem.   The prophecy calls sabbath year cycles "week" or "sevens".  However, it is little known that the Sabbath year itself is called a "seven".    The text calls for seven sevens and sixty two sevens, or 69 sabbatical years.   Then it says "after" this time period expires, the Messiah would be "cut off", a Hebrew idiom meaning to be put to death or banished.   The number of Sabbath years from 445/444 B.C. to A.D. 32/33 is EXACTLY 69.   That is right, the fit is exact.   There is no need for any manipulative tricks, like resorting to the claim of a prophetic year of 360 days.   The actual sabbatical cycle is all that is needed.   It is the one that Israel really observed.   It is the one that Israel will again learn to observe when Israel again obeys the Torah of Messiah Yeshua.

         There was a 360 year before the great flood, and there only seems to be one in the book of Revelation simply because many ignorant of the biblical new moon errantly assume a month is always 30 days.  For instance the 42 months are NOT 1260 days.   But these matters are explained in the "Prophecy" sections of the online book.

         Knowing the correct Sabbath year, we can use this information to reconstruct the year of Jubilee.  The year of Jubilee comes after seven cycles of sabbatical years.   The year after the 49th year is the Jubilee, which is called the 50th year (Lev. 25:1-8).   When one discovers one piece of a puzzle, then other pieces start to fit too.   You know you are putting a puzzle together correctly when pieces start to fit all over the place.   For this reason, we can have absolute certainty about when and how Yeshua rose from the dead.   We can be certain about biblical chronology.   We can prove what we believe to the world.   We can be assured of an absolutely solid historical foundation for the good news.

         We can also be sure of one other very important thing.   Did you know that every Church and denomination and sect has a view of biblical history and chronology that is necessary to support their different doctrines and teachings?   They may not tell you about it, but their doctrines require certain beliefs about chronology as well.   You can be sure, that if you know and thoroughly test this chronology, that you will never be deceived by these cults and alternative Christianities that compete with the original Faith that Messiah Yeshua once delivered to the Saints.   And you can be sure that your knowledge of the original faith is absolutely correct.

         The Jubilee year is intimately connected with the Messianic restoration at the end of the age.  In the year of Jubilee, the "Great Trumpet" is blown, announcing redemption of the land of Israel.   We can use our knowledge of the sabbath year to show how the Jubilee cycle fits.   This little article, however is a summary of the online book, and only part of it at that.  So I speak in more general terms here.  The Jubilee is synchronized with the Exodus and Hezekiah's 15th and 16th years, a period of time that works out with all the other biblical data as exactly 18 Jubilees.  The Jubilee is also alluded to in the 2nd year of King Saul (1 Sam. 13:1-3), the 4th year of David (2 Sam. 6:15), the fall of Nineveh (Isaiah 27:13), the restoration of Nebuchadnezzar to his throne (Dan. 4:34).  The Jubilee also synchronizes with the first year of creation.   This all works out perfectly with all other biblical data, with no contradictions.

For the complete article go to the following which is a long read:

http://www.torahtimes.org/SabbathResurrection/The%20Sabbath%20Resurrection.htm


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

 

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