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Author Topic: Mark 16:9  (Read 5489 times)

Offline rstrats

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Mark 16:9
« on: September 27, 2011, 11:21:15 AM »
A poster on another board, the topic of which was questioning the authenticity of the last 12 verses in the book of Mark, wrote that it doesn�t really matter because there is no doctrinal teaching in Mark 16:9-20 that cannot be proved elsewhere in agreed Scripture.


I made the mistake of sticking my nose into the discussion by pointing out that actually there is a statement in verse 9, as the KJV and similar versions have it, that is used for a doctrinal teaching that is to be found nowhere else in Scripture. As the KJV translates it, it is the only place that puts the resurrection on the first day of the week. I then suggested that whenever the discussion of seventh day observance versus first day observance comes up, first day proponents usually use the idea of a first day resurrection to justify the change, and when questioned about the day of resurrection, frequently quote Mark 16:9. The poster came back with: �Quote a published author who has done that.� - I have not yet been able to come up with one.  Does anyone here know of one?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 01:47:36 PM by rstrats »

Offline rstrats

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Re: Mark 16:9
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2012, 06:58:48 AM »
Anyone?

Offline Quasar

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Re: Mark 16:9
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2012, 10:42:40 AM »
What about Mk.16:9?  What is your question or comment about it?

According to notations found in most Bibles, Mk.16:9-20, the most reliable manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have it.


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline rstrats

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Re: Mark 16:9
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2012, 01:50:01 PM »
For some reason the OP didn't get included.  It's there now - I think.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Mark 16:9
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2012, 03:25:53 PM »
That's better rstrats, thanks for the input.  The following is where the Church was first ordained to worship our Lord on the first day of the week:

In Leviticus 23:9-12 we read the following fore-runner to the resurrection of Jesus in the following parable by God to Moses, to be conveyed to the Israelites:

Quote:
[Vs 9] "The Lord said to Moses. [Vs 10] 'Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest.  [Vs 11] He is to wave the sheaf before the Lord so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath.  [Vs 12] On the day you wave the sheaf, you must sacrifice as a burnt offering to the Lord a lamb a year old without defect.'"

The Feast of Firstfruits [vs 10].  This festival represents the resurrection - first of Jesus Christ, then those who are His when He comes [1 Cor.15:23, 52-54 and 1 Thes.4:13-18].  The feast was observed in the same week as the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Passover feast which represents the crucifixion of Christ, held on the sixteenth day of the first month, Nisan, the beginning of the barley harvest.


Reference is made by Paul in Acts 20:7 as to the beginning of the Gentile churches coming together to worship the Lord on the first day of the week, on Sunday, the day after the Sabbath:

Quote:
On the first day of the week when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight."


In 1 Cor.16:2, Paul again infers as to the church worshiping the Lord on the first day of the week, on Sunday, the day after the Sabbath:

Quote:
"On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made."


It is a clear sign, the reason for the Church establishing the worship of the Lord Jesus on the first day of the week was in reverent remembrance of His resurrection which took place of the first day of the week, as recorded in Jn.20:1.



Quasar   
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 10:09:36 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline rstrats

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Re: Mark 16:9
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2012, 07:24:46 PM »
Quasar,

I assume that your reply #4 is meant to disagree with my assertion that Mark 16:9 (as it is in the KJV) is the only scripture that definitively places the resurrection on the first day of the week.  If so, I have to disagree with your disagreement. 


re: “The Feast of Firstfruits [vs 10].  This festival represents the resurrection...”

But the only reference of the first day of the week with regard to Firstfruits is to say when it is to be waved/presented to the Lord.  The Messiah did indeed became the antitype when He  resurrected, but the “first day” requirement  was only fulfilled when He presented himself to the Father.  Nothing with regard to the actual timing of the resurrection can be definitively determined from what is said about Firstfruits. 


re: “Reference is made by Paul in Acts 20:7 as to the beginning of the Gentile churches coming together to worship the Lord on the first day of the week...”

Actually, as far as the Bible is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7.   There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first.   The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews.  Nothing is said about a celebration, worship service or day of rest.  The Acts reference has them together with Paul who wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again the next day.  The breaking of bread mentioned (even if it were referring to the Lord’s Supper) had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.


re: “In 1 Cor.16:2, Paul again infers as to the church worshipping the Lord on the first day of the week...”

The text  merely says that everyone should “lay by him in store” on the first day of the week. The Darby Translation reads: “On the first of the week let each of you put by at home, laying up in whatever degree he may have prospered, that there may be no collections when I come.”. The New Swedish and Norwegian Bibles read: “At home by himself.” The Lamsa Translation reads: “Let each of you put aside and keep in his house”. The Wemouth reads: “Let each of you put on one side and store up at his home”. Ballantine’s Translation reads: “Let each of you lay up at home”. The Syriac, on this passage reads: “Let every one of you lay aside and preserve at  home”.  And the New Catholic Edition of the Bible reads: “.......let each one of you put aside at home and lay up whatever he has a mind to”.  This verse  says nothing about going to church on the first day or even assembling together on the first day.


re: “It is a clear sign, the reason for the Church establishing the worship of the Lord Jesus on the first day of the week was in reverent remembrance of His resurrection which took place of the first day of the week, as recorded in Jn.20:1.”

John 20:1 does not say when the resurrection actually occurred.  It only says that Mary Magdalene came to the tomb on the first day and saw that the stone had been removed sometime earlier.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Mark 16:9
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2012, 12:24:32 AM »
Quote by rstrats
I assume that your reply #4 is meant to disagree with my assertion that Mark 16:9 (as it is in the KJV) is the only scripture that definitively places the resurrection on the first day of the week.  If so, I have to disagree with your disagreement.



Q:  I was not disagreeing with you at all, but rather, showing you where the worship of the Church on the first day of the week was first established.

However, in Mt.28:1 the following is written:  "After the Sabbath , at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb."  From verses 2-7 is the declaration by an angel rolling back the stone and telling them Jesus had risen and gone ahead of them into Galilee.  NIV.

A similar rendition of it is found in Lk.24:1-7, also in the NIV.  So I find no reason to believe Marks account of Jesus being ressurrected on the first day of the week as being exclusive at all.


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline rstrats

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Re: Mark 16:9
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2012, 08:18:07 AM »
Quasar,

re: “I was not disagreeing with you at all...”

Sorry; when you referenced First Fruits and John 20:1, I thought - incorrectly it appears - that you were using them to disagree with my assertion that Mark 16:9 is the only scripture that places the resurrection on the first of the week.


re: “A similar rendition of it [Mt.28:1] is found in Lk.24:1-7, also in the NIV.  So I find no reason to believe Marks account of Jesus being resurrected on the first day of the week as being exclusive at all.”

OK, now I’m pretty sure you’re disagreeing with my assertion with regard to Mark 16:9. However, neither of those two scriptures say when the resurrection actually took place. Only Mark 16:9 does.

Offline rstrats

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Re: Mark 16:9
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2012, 05:56:17 PM »
Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of a author.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Mark 16:9
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2012, 10:43:31 AM »
Let's understand this fact first of all:  Mk.6:9-20 is not found in either of the two most ancient mss., the Sinaiticus and the Vaticanus;  others have them with partial omissions and variations.  The passage is quoted by Irenaeus and Hippolytus in the second or third century.

Which does not mean Mk.16:9 is a false statement.

However, Mk.19:9 is not needed to prove Jesus was resurrected on the first day of the week.

See the following for that proof:

http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/john20.html


Quasar

« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 10:45:06 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline rstrats

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Re: Mark 16:9
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2012, 11:22:19 AM »
Quasar,

re: “See the following for that proof: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/

Sorry, but none of the scriptures in the link - except for Mark 16:9 -  say that the resurrection took place on the first of the week.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Mark 16:9
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2012, 10:21:28 AM »
Quasar,

re: “See the following for that proof: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/

Sorry, but none of the scriptures in the link - except for Mark 16:9 -  say that the resurrection took place on the first of the week.



LOL!  "After further review..."  Like you, I had to stick my nose into your query only to come up with the wrong conclusion!  You are correct, Mk.16:9 is the only account that states Jesus rose on the first day of the week.  All the other Gospel accounts infer He was.  By the same token, Mk.16:9 cannot be correct because Jesus could not have been in the grave three days and three nights as He prophecied He would be in Mt.12:40, if He was buried on Friday before sunset as most expositors believe.  IMO, Jesus was first observed after His resurrection, on the first day of the week, and rose sometime on the following Saturday.

You might check review the following which explains how and why Jesus could have been buried on the Wednesday preceding the Passover Sabbath, then followed by the Saturday Sabbath the same week.

http://theologyreview.com/index.php/topic,7394.msg48113.html#new


Quasar 
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 10:23:22 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline rstrats

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Re: Mark 16:9
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2014, 10:23:59 AM »
Since it has again been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of a author.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Mark 16:9
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2014, 10:35:16 AM »
IMO, I see Mt.12:40 fulfilled in the following way:

The Hebrew day begins at sunset the day before and fulfills the prophecy:

Wednesday @ sunset = Thursday = 24 hours

Thursday @ sunset = Friday = 24 hours = Passover Sabbath

Friday @ sunset = Saturday =24 hours = seventh day Sabbath

Sunday morning, first day of the week = Jesus resurrected.

Describes Jesus in the tomb for three days abd three nights, confirming Mt.12:40.


Quasar

« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 10:36:50 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline rstrats

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Re: Mark 16:9
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2014, 09:35:58 AM »
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