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Author Topic: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church  (Read 9513 times)

Offline Quasar

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Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2012, 09:51:04 AM »
You asked previously what my thoughts were pertaining to the Apostolic Authority, which I have not up to now responded to.

They are mostly all from the second century on until the 4th or 5th century after Jesus and all His disciple were gone and most of the early Christians scattered everywhere.

They brought to the Church such things as Amillennialism, Supersessionism/Replacement theology as well as the doctrine of the Trinity which neither Jesus nor His apostles ever taught. and there are many other heresies the church fathers taught as well.  Many were purged from the church long ago.

As I stated in a previous post, James the brother of Jesus was the first Bishop of the Christian Church in Jerusalem, and there were no Popes until about the 5th century.

"440-461 — Pope Leo I. Many historians suggest that Pope Leo is the first to claim universal jurisdiction over the worldwide Church, thus initiating the rise of the papacy, a uniquely Roman Catholic structure. "


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« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 10:09:35 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Overaged

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Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2012, 10:28:59 AM »


James, the brother of Jesus was the first Bishop in the Jerusalem Christian church.   


Quasar
Well; here is something from the Bible on that:
Quote
1Pe 2:25  For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
Seems that Jesus was/is the first Bishop
I will not recoil before the torments that are prepared for me by my enemies and false witnesses, who will one day have to render an account of their impostures before the great God, whom nothing can deceive.”  {GC88 113.1}

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Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2012, 11:34:57 AM »
The Biblical view of "tradition"  is a subject that I feel is poorly understood by many, both Roman Catholic and Protestant. It is, however, a subject that I find very interesting, and enriching to my spiritual pilgrimage on this earth.

"Tradition" is a Biblical concept, but do we have Biblical concepts about it?

As an example; here is just one text:

2Th 2:15  "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

Both Roman Catholic and Protestant scholars quote this text yet the respective views thereof are definitely polarized.

Whose position is really "biblical" since both sides quote the same Bible text re "tradition?"

Many people also say that "religion" is bad, but what does the bible say about religion?

James 1:26-27

 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


Pure religion is good, according to the bible.  ;D

"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

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Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2012, 11:39:53 AM »
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Q Can you explain who the woman and the beast are, and the meaning of Babylon, in the Revelation prophecy Chapter 17?

IMO the woman represents false religion, such as apostatized churches that are ordaining homosexuals or Islamist who advocate cutting off the heads of non-Muslims who refuse to accept their Muslim doctrines. They are false doctrines that draw people away from biblical doctrines and from salvation.
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Quasar

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Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2012, 12:45:45 AM »
Well; here is something from the Bible on that:Seems that Jesus was/is the first Bishop



First of all reference was to the first human Bishop of the Christian Church, who was James, in the Church in Jerusalem, on the Mount of Olives.  Destroyed by the Roman Emperor Hadrian in the Bar Kokhba revolt in 135 A.D.  When he renamed Jerusalem, Capitolina.

The KJV is the only translation that uses the term "bishop" in 1 Pet.2:25.  The NASB uses the term "Guardian of your souls," and the NIV uses the term, "Overseers of your souls."

Jesus was never called a Bishop, but is the founder and head of His one body, the Church.  He holds three titles, as King, Chief Priest and Prophet, the only person to hold all three offices in the history of Israel.

See the following for the first Bishop of the Christian Church:

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2010/01/23/the-first-bishop-of-the-christian-church-in-jerusa-2/

See the following for the Bar Kokhba revolt and renaming of Jerusalem:

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2009/12/20/was-jerusalem-ever-renamed/


Quasar
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 01:01:37 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Overaged

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Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2012, 06:03:24 AM »

The KJV is the only translation that uses the term "bishop" in 1 Pet.2:25.  The NASB uses the term "Guardian of your souls," and the NIV uses the term, "Overseers of your souls."
Well; my Bible is quite clear; 1 Pet 2:25 does call Him "Bishop;" but "guardian" also fits. There is no Bible reason to omit use of "Bishop" in the KJV

Quote
Jesus was never called a Bishop, but is the founder and head of His one body, the Church.  He holds three titles, as King, Chief Priest and Prophet, the only person to hold all three offices in the history of Israel.


Quasar
I don't see much difference between overseer or head of the Church; and to me, Jesus was the first head of the church. Others, such as you are mentioning came after Jesus.

Perhaps tho I am a little screwy on this and you need to set me straight; I don't know. Are you just talking about the Roman Catholic Church, when you talk about the first Bishop in this topic?
I will not recoil before the torments that are prepared for me by my enemies and false witnesses, who will one day have to render an account of their impostures before the great God, whom nothing can deceive.”  {GC88 113.1}

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Offline Quasar

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Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2012, 10:26:25 AM »
To the best of my knowledge, the discussion is about a critique of the Roman Catholic Church.  From which comes the history of Christianity with a view of their claims vs the historical Christian facts.

The term "Catholic" was not heard of until late in the second century, by Tertullian.  So the listings of Popes, beginning with Peter is nothing more than one of their concoctions that did not even begin until the 5th century, when Leo I was the Pope, as I previously posted.  When it was decided the RCC should have one leader over their entire church.

Jesus was far more than just a Bishop, as coined by Peter in 1 Pet.2:25, as I also addressed previously.  Paul hit the nail on the head when he referred to Jesus as the head of the body of the Church in Col.1:16, to say nothing of being the firstborn over all creation, and creating everything in heaven and on earth.

His most frequent titles were, the Son of Man, Master and Rabbi.


Quasar
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 10:30:25 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2012, 10:45:49 AM »
Quote by Overage:


2Th 2:15  "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

Both Roman Catholic and Protestant scholars quote this text yet the respective views thereof are definitely polarized.

Whose position is really "biblical" since both sides quote the same Bible text re "tradition?"

End of quote.



That is an ambiguous remark in that it is properly understood by the man made views of Catholicism as found in all of the Creeds as well as their Catachisms vs the pure teachings of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, directly from the untainted Bible.

The claim the RCC makes as to Sola Scriptura teachings falling short of that which is necessary for obtaining our salvation and other Biblical doctrine and theology is far from what the facts are as opposed to the Christian churches that do.  The Creeds are a good example.


Quasar
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 10:51:23 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2012, 11:26:23 AM »
Many people also say that "religion" is bad, but what does the bible say about religion?

James 1:26-27

 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


Pure religion is good, according to the bible.  ;D



James doesn't know how lucky he was in his day; not having to deal with such as the following we have to struggle with today!  :)

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2009/12/20/there-are-40-organized-religions/

See also:

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2011/03/26/wity-all-of-the-different-religions-how-can-i-know/


Quasar
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 11:35:31 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Overaged

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Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2012, 11:42:22 AM »
To the best of my knowledge, the discussion is about a critique of the Roman Catholic Church.  From which comes the history of Christianity with a view of their claims vs the historical Christian facts.

So are you trying to say that the Roman catholic Church was "the first Church?"
I will not recoil before the torments that are prepared for me by my enemies and false witnesses, who will one day have to render an account of their impostures before the great God, whom nothing can deceive.”  {GC88 113.1}

- Overaged

Offline Quasar

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Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2012, 12:06:43 PM »
IMO the woman represents false religion, such as apostatized churches that are ordaining homosexuals or Islamist who advocate cutting off the heads of non-Muslims who refuse to accept their Muslim doctrines. They are false doctrines that draw people away from biblical doctrines and from salvation.



A false religion is exactly what the RCC is. Babylon the Great, mother of all prostitutes of Rev.17, sits on "many waters," with the kings of the earth committing adultry with her:  She sits on seven mountains = Rome; on many waters = throughout the world; the kings of the earth committing adultry with her = The RCC ran the nations of the world up to the 16th century.

There are other major religions, but only three of them struggling for a piece of Jerusalem; Israel; Islam and the RCC.  [Christianity is not involved].  The Bible reveals who the enemies of Israel were, and IMO, still are today, in Ps.82:5-7, from whom the ten horns will more than likely come from, whom the beast [antichrist], will lead and give kingdoms to for "one hour."

The woman sits on both beasts and ten horns [nations] until the latter kills the woman, according to Rev.17:16 [The RCC], and sets up the one world religion according to Rev.13:14-15 and 2 Thes.2:4.

They are the ones who will fight the Lord and His armies from heaven in the battle of Armageddon, according to Rev.19:11-20.

Hope this is helpful.


Quasar 

 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 12:11:15 PM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

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Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2012, 09:46:44 PM »
A false religion is exactly what the RCC is. Babylon the Great, mother of all prostitutes of Rev.17, sits on "many waters," with the kings of the earth committing adultry with her:  She sits on seven mountains = Rome; on many waters = throughout the world; the kings of the earth committing adultry with her = The RCC ran the nations of the world up to the 16th century.

Naw, that's not the RCC. LOL. Rev. 17 is symbolic of false religion (not the RCC). However, I acknowledge that it's a popular theological opinion in North American Protestantism.  :o
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Overaged

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Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2012, 10:38:04 PM »
Naw, that's not the RCC. LOL. Rev. 17 is symbolic of false religion (not the RCC).
I am curious as to what makes you say this? Are there Bible texts within Rev 17, or elsewhere in the Bible that you would use to support what you have just said here?
I will not recoil before the torments that are prepared for me by my enemies and false witnesses, who will one day have to render an account of their impostures before the great God, whom nothing can deceive.”  {GC88 113.1}

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Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2012, 10:53:54 PM »
A false religion is exactly what the RCC is.
Why then, are there some Roman Catholics who have much more connection to Jesus, that do some Adventists?

What is the outlook, in terms of eternity, for those who belong to a "false religion?" Are they all doomed to eternal hell-fire?

And who gets to say what a "false religion" is?
I will not recoil before the torments that are prepared for me by my enemies and false witnesses, who will one day have to render an account of their impostures before the great God, whom nothing can deceive.”  {GC88 113.1}

- Overaged

Offline Quasar

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Re: Critique of the Roman Catholic Church
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2012, 11:22:42 PM »
Naw, that's not the RCC. LOL. Rev. 17 is symbolic of false religion (not the RCC). However, I acknowledge that it's a popular theological opinion in North American Protestantism.  :o


Then after all this you don't believe the RCC is a false religion?  Would you be a willing member of the RCC?

See the following opinions of others who belirve the mother of all prostitutes is, in Rev.17:

http://www.the-bible-antichrist.com/babylon-the-great.html

http://www.whatsaiththescripture.com/Prophecy/Mystery.Babylon.the.Great.html

Which is only the tip of the iceberg of expositors who see the RCC as the great whore of Babylon in Rev.17.


Quasar
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 11:35:35 PM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

 

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