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Author Topic: Should we pray in tongues?  (Read 4713 times)

Offline me again

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Should we pray in tongues?
« on: May 18, 2012, 06:58:07 PM »
And if so, for how long?  :o
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Online John Oscar

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Re: Should we pray in tongues?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2012, 08:45:17 AM »
Coming from the Pentecostal Perspective-

That's the wrong question.  The proper question should be- should we pray in the power of the Holy Spirit, and allow Him to use tongues as a tool for our spirit to commune more closely with God?  Tongues is about submission of ourselves to the Spirit of God, not as a gimic to try and get a "spiritual move" going in us.
John O


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Re: Should we pray in tongues?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2012, 04:52:06 PM »
Coming from the Pentecostal Perspective-

That's the wrong question.  The proper question should be- should we pray in the power of the Holy Spirit,

but it doesn't "feel" like any power of any sort...

Quote
and allow Him to use tongues as a tool for our spirit to commune more closely with God?

but it doesn't "feel" like communion with the holy spirit...

Quote
Tongues is about submission of ourselves to the Spirit of God,

but it doesn't feel like submission of any sort...

Quote
not as a gimic to try and get a "spiritual move" going in us.

I never thought of it as a gimmick, but maybe some people see it as such?  :o

So if it is operating in God's power, then we should do it every waking moment, right?  :o
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Quasar

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Re: Should we pray in tongues?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2012, 10:40:37 PM »
How can a person pray in tongues if he is not given the gift of speaking in different kinds of tongues?  1 Cor.12:28.

According to Jesus discussion with Nicodemus, we must believe in Him and receive the new Spirit, to be born again, as seen in Eph.1:13-14.  As well as in Mt.3:11; Mk:1:8; Lk.3:16; Jn.1:33 and Acts 2:1-3.

Speaking in tongues is the gift of the Holy Spirit to some, for the purpose of edifying the Church when necessary to speak in the language the Church understands.  Who must also be able to interpret the tongue he is speaking in.  1 Cor.14:5.

By no means do we need to pray in tongues, but rather, in your own native language, because the Lord speaks and understands all tongues.  :)


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

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Re: Should we pray in tongues?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2012, 07:43:32 AM »
Me again-

Then you are not praying in tongues in the power of the Holy Spirit if all you said is true.
John O


Offline Quasar

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Re: Should we pray in tongues?
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2012, 11:15:57 PM »
The following about speaking in tongues, I found to be very enlightening about this subject:

"Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.  When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his language.  Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans?  Then how is it that each of us hears it in his own language?  Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libia near Cyrene; visitors from Rome [both Jew and converts to Judaism] Cretans and Arabs - we hear declaring the wonders of God in their own tongues!"  Acts 2:5-11.

Which IMO is clear testimony the message coming in the tongues spoken by the apostles were understood in the native language of those present from every country in the world of that time.

Which Also IMO will never be done again until the Lord appears for all of us who belong to Him from all over the world, when we will all be able to understand one another for the first time since God scrambled the languages in Gen.11:9.


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

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Re: Should we pray in tongues?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2012, 08:35:56 AM »
The following about speaking in tongues, I found to be very enlightening about this subject:

"Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.  When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his language.  Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans?  Then how is it that each of us hears it in his own language?  Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libia near Cyrene; visitors from Rome [both Jew and converts to Judaism] Cretans and Arabs - we hear declaring the wonders of God in their own tongues!"  Acts 2:5-11.

Which IMO is clear testimony the message coming in the tongues spoken by the apostles were understood in the native language of those present from every country in the world of that time.

Which Also IMO will never be done again until the Lord appears for all of us who belong to Him from all over the world, when we will all be able to understand one another for the first time since God scrambled the languages in Gen.11:9.


Quasar

I'll be gone for a few days, but upon my return, I'll comment.

You clearly do not speak in tongues.  :o
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Quasar

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Re: Should we pray in tongues?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2012, 11:27:48 PM »
No, I sure don't speak in tongues, because I was not given the gift to do so by the Holy Spirit.  I never learned a foreign language during my school years either, which in essence is the same thing.

I was given other gifts, but not that one.  The claim by those who are members of Oneness Pentecostal that a person is not saved unless he speaks in tongues is non-Scriptural and false.

Where in the Bible do you find any such "requirement" in order to obtain salvation?  It could hardly be called the free gift of God if that were the case, could it?  I see nothing in Jn.3:16; Rom.10:9-10; Eph.1:13-14 or Eph. 2:8-9 we know we have been saved when we speak in tongues, do you?

When we believe/receive Jesus as our Lord and Savior, He gives/baptizes us with the Holy Spirit according to Mt.3:11; Mk.1:8; Lk.3:16; Jn.1:33 and in Acts 2:1-3.

Hope you all have a wonderful Memorial Day holiday.


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Online John Oscar

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Re: Should we pray in tongues?
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2012, 08:53:08 AM »
I'm not a "Oneness Pentecostal", so I'm not going to try and defend their doctrine.

I don't have a bible immediately handy, but I will say that 1 Cor 14 clearly says that if a person prays in tongues, then their mind is unfruitful as they are uttering mysteries before God.  Paul then said he was thankful he spoke in tongues more than any of the Corinthians.  He then goes into instructions about tongues and interpretation of tongues in a church service.

Clearly there was no need for Paul to speak any other language other than Greek for the ministry area he was active in, as that was the common language of the Roman Empire.  It doesn't track that Paul would give instructions on the use of a supernaturally given foriegn missions language.  Furthermore, following Paul's line of thought in 1 Cor 14, it doesn't make sense for God to give a missional language that the speaker doesn't understand.

Pentecostals have always understood scriptures that speak of the gift of tongues as a supernatural gift of ecstatic utterance- our spirit connecting with God's Spirit in a very special way.   It is not required to be saved as the Oneness people incorrectly state, but given as a spiritual gift to those who seek it.

That mine, and the Assemblies of God take on the matter :)
John O


Offline Quasar

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Re: Should we pray in tongues?
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2012, 10:51:43 AM »
It is clear from the Scriptures everyone did not speak Greek, or it would not have been necessary for apostles to speak in tongues, would it.  By the same logic, it would have been necessary for Paul to speak in various "tongues" [better stated, languages] during his three missions through the many countries he visited.

With all due respect, I do not believe as you do for reasons set forth below.  The one best describing my position is the letter from the former member of the Assembly of the Lord Jesus Christ Church below.


  Doctrine of Speaking in Tongues to be Saved

There are many churches that follow the doctrine that you must speak on tongues to be saved and filled with the Holy Spirit. I find that not only to be Biblically incorrect but also to be placing a spiritual bondage on people. A friend of mine that attended one of these denominations recently seen the error of this teaching and left the church. Below is his letter to the pastor and those in the congregation. I could not put it in better words than he so aptly did. I think his letter covers the Biblical grounds that prove this doctrine to be not only false but heretical.

Being a Pentecostal all of my Christian life, I am submitting this letter from a brother in Christ to my "oneness" Pentecostal brethren, whom I love dearly.

The intent of this letter is not to shame, belittle, or put down any church or denomination, but rather to educate, inform and help fellow Pentecostals understand what they could be doing to precious sheep within their fold.

The following letter was written by a brother in the Lord that went through a very heart wrenching experience while attempting to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. The church he was involved with led him to believe that if he didn't speak in tongues, that he was not born again. Having an honest heart, this young man, 21 yrs of age, would not bow to the pressure to mimic or fake this precious gift of the Holy Spirit, but rather honestly ask Jesus for real thing. When the gift was not manifested in his Christian experience, he had nothing left to do but go into his bible and read the truth, and face the tough decision to leave the church. The following is his letter:

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I am writing to you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, in whom I give all praise and thanks. I would like to tell you why I can no longer be a part of the "Assemblies of The Lord Jesus Christ."

The Lord has been trying to show me something for a long time, and I can no longer put it aside. Having brought this to my pastor first, I feel at liberty to now bring it to the church body. Please understand that I do not think anything of myself. Only through Jesus can I know anything. These are the things the Lord has shown me. Please study them out and pray that God would show you whether they are true. I will not ask you to receive anything that is not found in Scripture.


For the rest of this letter, though lengthy, is Scripturally accurate and informative.

http://www.bibleheadquarters.org/kevin/DoYouHaveToSpeakinTonguestobeSaved.html


From another source:

Must we speak in tongues in order to be saved?

No, you do not have to speak in tongues in order to be saved. Unfortunately, there are groups, usually the Oneness Churches who teach that you must speak in tongues in order to be saved. Additionally, they maintain that speaking in tongues is a necessary sign of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit because in the book of Acts, after the Holy Spirit moves on people they speak in tongues.

The problem with this position is that it fails to incorporate the biblical teachings that the Holy Spirit gives different gifts to different people in the Church.

1 Cor. 12:7-11,28-31, "But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills...28 And

God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts.

As you can see, not all have gifts of healings, or tongues. Clearly, the Bible teaches that all do not speak in tongues, not because they can't, but because they are not gifted to do so. Therefore, the idea that someone must speak in tongues to be saved is incorrect.

From: http://carm.org/questions/about-doct...order-be-saved


Quasar
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 11:00:24 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Online John Oscar

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Re: Should we pray in tongues?
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2012, 04:43:23 PM »
Again, I DON'T believe one must speak in tongues in order to be saved.  I thought I was pretty clear about that in last reply.

Scripture doesn't say what exactly which language people spoke, but history shows us that the common, most used langauge for commerce and trade in the Roman Empire was Greek.  Remember that vast majority of the New Testament was written in Greek.  It further shows that most people were at least bi-lingual, if not multi-lingual.
John O


Offline Quasar

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Re: Should we pray in tongues?
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2012, 11:54:43 PM »
Nor do we have to speak in tongues to receive the Holy Spirit, we are given/baptized with by Jesus, according to Mt.3:11; Mk.1:8; Lk.3:16; Jn.1:33 and Acts 2:1-3.

Though you state Greek was the predominant language spoken in the Roman empire in the first century, which is correct - by the same token, that by no means includes everyone as the following passage makes very clear.  Which is also the very reason Paul spoke in so many "tongues." [languages].


"Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.  When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his language.  Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans?  Then how is it that each of us hears it in his own language?  Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libia near Cyrene; visitors from Rome [both Jew and converts to Judaism] Cretans and Arabs - we hear declaring the wonders of God in their own tongues!"  Acts 2:5-11.

I will go with what the Bible states.


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Online John Oscar

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Re: Should we pray in tongues?
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2012, 12:39:10 AM »
Quasar,  You're attempting to proof-text your way to a very poor point.  Reread the scripture provided and you may see this sentence-

"Then how is it that each of us hears it in his own language"

Was this a miracle of everyone hearing a person speaking in their own language, or everyone hearing it in their own language through supernatural means?  Imagine a group of over 100 speaking in a different human language, and then attempting to hear the one person speaking in your native language, and that over the top of a crowd talking about the people talking.  Just that thought alone tells me this was a miracle of hearing, not of speaking a language others could understand on their own.

Couple that verse with 1 Cor 14.  Why would Paul encourage tongues in a service, and then lay down a groundwork for their proper use if they are just human languages?  Why would you need an interpreter if you are in a small church where everyone would speak the local language, or at least the common language (Greek), if this was a human tongue?

Paul himself says that he spoke in the tongue of men, and of angels.  That is the tongues we are talking about here.

You may think what you want my friend, but your exegesis here is seriously tainted by a preformed opinion.
John O


Offline Quasar

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Re: Should we pray in tongues?
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2012, 10:47:42 PM »
Deleting my posts is censorship of Scriptural facts and won't relieve you of your responsibility of fairly adjudicating regardless of what you personally believe.  Nor does it change a single fact I have set forth as a challenge for you to address with Scriptural response, not opinion.

Consider the following critique:

http://www.gotquestions.org/praying-in-tongues.html

http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/what-is-speaking-in-tongues-a-biblical-analysis/#ixzz1w2OI3Fq0


Quasar
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 11:49:09 PM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Online John Oscar

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Re: Should we pray in tongues?
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2012, 06:43:51 AM »
Who deleted your post?  I see no deleted posts over the last 24 hrs other than Russian spam posts about low cost medications, and yes, I did delete those and ban the user accounts per our policy of keeping that junk off our, and I mean all of ours, (including you Quasar, a valued member) forum.

Back to the discussion at hand-
I read both articles, and IMHO they were long on opinion and short of biblical scholarship.  I'm come to expect that on this subject, and please rest assured I have studied it for myself and am comfortable with my conclusions.  As an Assembly of God minister, I do not, nor would I ever force a person to speak in tongues, nor would I suggest that they have "less of the Holy Spirit" than those who do.  I realize there are those out there that might, even in my own fellowship.  Within the Assemblies, there is more of a movement to no long push this emphasis (ironically to make our fellowship more palitable to the "unchurched"), so within my generation we may see the use of this gift vanish.

I could go into my whole history about this subject in my own life, going from the lunitic fringe of the Charismatic church (which I left after going to an Assembly of God bible college), to a almost Baptist belief in reaction to the abuses I saw in that church, and now ending up somewhere in the middle, but I don't want to bore you :)
John O


 

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