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Author Topic: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST  (Read 15965 times)

Offline Quasar

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THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
« on: June 26, 2012, 10:57:03 AM »
THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST

During Roman occupation it was illegal for citizens to criticise the Roman leadership. If the Jews wanted to criticize, they would have to invent a code language. Babylon for instance was the code for the Roman Empire. The Whore of Babylon would be the name for the Caesar. The heads of the beast would be representative of the power structure of the Roman Empire.

666 would refer to Nero Caesar. In the Hebrew Art of Gematria, every letter has a numeric value. If you convert Nero Caesar to Hebrew and convert it to Gematria you will get the number 666. The Letter N in Hebrew has a value of 50. When you convert Nero in Hebrew, it would be Neron, but some jews would say Nero, meaning it could be 616 or 666. Old manuscripts of the book of Revelations also have 616 instead of 666. Again, this need to use numbers instead of names was used in order to avoid directly criticizing the political establishment for fear of being arrested.

If you want a further analysis read the chapter on Revelations in Bart D Ehrman's book: "A historical introduction into early christian writings". Professor Ehrman teaches at the university of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. He is a textual critic of early Christian Writings.

SO TO HEBREW GEMMATRIA WE MUST TURN IF WE ARE TO MAKE SENSE OF THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST BEING THE NUMBER OF A MAN...

If we use a Hebrew Aramaic Gemmatrial system (where each Hebrew Letter has a corresponding NUMBER attached) the system works like this:

ALEPH =1 = (' )
BETH =2 =B
GIMMEL =3 =G
DALED =4 =D
HEH =5 =H
VAV =6 =V and O
TSAYIN =7 = Z
CHET =8 = CH
TET =9 = T
YUD =10 = Y or I
KAPH =20 = K
LAMED =30 = L
MEM =40 = M
NUN =50 = N
SAMEK =60 = S
Q'AYIN =70 = 'Q
PHE =80 = F
TSADEH = 90 = TZ
QUPH =100 = Q or K or hard C
RESH =200 = R
SHIN/SHIN =300 = S or SH
TAV =400 = T or TH

Since the Apocalypse of Yohanon the Elder (Book of Revelation) has TWO competing gemmatria for the "name of the beast", and was written during the 1st Jewish War against Rome (AD 66-72) the correct individual would presumably have to fit both 616 and 666 found in the 2 competing manuscript families for this marginal insertion...

The Roman Emperor NERO fits the bill nicely (he was the infamous sadistic but "Divine" Emperor-Caesar of Rome in AD 66 when the Revolt in Judaea broke out and used to burn Jews (i.e. Jewish Messianic Christians) in Rome in his gardens by dipping them in tar so they'd be able to light up the courtyard better!)

The Emperor Nero's hidden "gemmatrial" (i.e. Kaballistic-numerological) name in Hebrew Letters (with the letter VAV used for LONG O) would have been either written in Hebrew letters as: N R O N Q S R (=666, add them up) = this is the preferred version as spoken by the Greeks or else as: N R O Q S R (i.e. 616).

NERO was probably the original intent of the writer, but the "Book of Revelation"was re-written so many times in its long literary history, (e.g. in 96 AD (re-edited) with another Emperor (Nero-Domitian) in mind, and the text was applied to every succeeding generation where "persecution of the Elect" was in effect.)

Despite the "rhetoric of hope" for the "Elect" in the Book of Revelation which was meant to strengthen the resolve of those fighting the "Beast" contrary to the hopes of the writer, Jerusalem did not descend from the sky as promised, and 900,000 Palestinian Jews lost their lives in a war which, according to Josephus, should not have been ever fought in the first place...

From:  http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread80914/pg1

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Quasar

"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Zaph

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Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2012, 06:33:21 PM »
Or for different view you can try  666 Truth

Offline Quasar

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Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2012, 10:09:07 AM »
Or for different view you can try  666 Truth



Doug Batchelor, of Amazing Facts,  makes a very convincing case for the Pope being the antichrist and number 666.  However, there are some factors involved he did not address and some he stretched into making the Scriptures fit his views in the interpretation of them.

The first point is, those who are going to be sealed in Rev.7:1-8, are the 144,000 Israelite converted evangelists God will place on the earth to take the place of the raptured Church, and have nothing at all to do with the Church saints.

The second point is, the Church will not go through the seven year tribulation, but rather, will be caught up together with them [All the dead in Christ] in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, according to 1 Thes.4:17, before the seven year tribulation begins.  Recorded in 2 Thes.2:3, when they depart [Greek "apostasia" and Latin "discessio"] and "are taken out of the way." in vs 7, before the man of lawlessness [Mr.666] is revealed.  The same person as all the "he's" in Dan.9:27.

The third point is, the term saints in Rev.13:7 refer to those whom the 144,000 Israelite evangelists will bring to the Lord during the tribulation.  Who are seen in the parenthetic Great Multitude of Rev.7:9-17, who are also the martyred saints who will participate in the first resurrection, according to Rev.20:4 and 6.

The fourth point is, all Biblical prophecy is directed directly or indirectly around Israel, not the Church, including all that is written in Daniel. 

The fifth point is, Mr. Batchelor alluded to the dragon of Rev.13 as that of both Rome as well as Satan, which is non-Scriptural  Rev.12:9 clearly reveals what is meant when the term dragon is used in prophecy.

The sixth point is, Mr.666 was aleady dead at the time John wrote the vision Jesus gave him, in Rev.17:8 and 11, whom the dragon, Satan will bring up out of the Abyss, who triggers the 70th and last Week of God's decree upon the destiny of Israel/ the seven year tribulation - one and the same, recorded as all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27 and the rider on the white horse in Rev.6:2.  So it cannot be the Pope of the RCC.

Therefore the Jewish belief that Nero(n) is Mr. 666 has valid credence.

The seventh point is, the Mystery Babylon, the Great Mother of all Prostitutes is, IMO, the RCC, the false church, who Mr.666 and the ten horns [nations] allied with him will destroy according to Rev.17:16, and will then himself set up the one world church as found in Rev.13:14-17 and 2 Thes.2:4.


Quasar 


« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 10:10:57 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Zaph

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Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2012, 02:17:33 PM »
I'm not real interested in going back and forth over this. Everyone needs to study these things out for themselves. However, I will say that Doug Batchelor is in good company when it comes to believing that the Pope/Papacy being the antichrist. A good portion of the reformers believed the same.

http://www.christiantrumpetsounding.com/reformation_views.htm

Offline Quasar

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Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2012, 01:07:56 PM »
There are many who think the Pope is going to be the antichrist.  I have already written by the Scriptures why that cannot be.  Do you think either those who hold to Judaism and Islam are going to accept any covenant made by a Catholic Pope?  I don't think so.

I noticed from my last post where I wrotethe following:

"Therefore the Jewish belief that Nero(n) is Mr. 666 has valid credence."  the Hebrew number 666 is arrived at by the use of the complete spelling of Neron's name.  With the letter "n" left off, the Hebrew nuber is reduced to 616.  Which is why some people insist that is what the number of the beast should be.

 
Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline me again

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Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2012, 06:31:27 PM »
There are many who think the Pope is going to be the antichrist.  I have already written by the Scriptures why that cannot be.  Do you think either those who hold to Judaism and Islam are going to accept any covenant made by a Catholic Pope?  I don't think so.

I noticed from my last post where I wrotethe following:

"Therefore the Jewish belief that Nero(n) is Mr. 666 has valid credence."  the Hebrew number 666 is arrived at by the use of the complete spelling of Neron's name.  With the letter "n" left off, the Hebrew nuber is reduced to 616.  Which is why some people insist that is what the number of the beast should be.

 
Quasar

There are some Christians who are believe that when the Ottoman Empire (Muslim empire) was destroyed, that it was the wounded head -- and that the revival of the Muslum beast is what the scriptures are referring to.
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Quasar

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Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2012, 12:39:22 AM »
That's an interesting point of view, me again, but the beasts are both described in Rev.13 along with the dragon.  The two bests are real human men and the dragon is Satan.

The revival of Islam is abundantly clear, while at the same time, the Scriptures declare the fourth beast of Daniel 7, was the Roman empire, and the same one that will be in existence at the return of Christ - such as the EU, which is a unification of nations who made up the Roman empire during Jesus first advent.

Take care.


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Nats

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Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2012, 07:25:24 PM »
I'm going to go against all traditional teaching and say the number we're supposed to be counting is not 666.

KJV
Rev 13:18 
Here is wisdom.
Let him that hath understanding
count the number of the beast:
for it is the number of a man;
and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

his number is chi xi stigma.

Scholars throughout the centuries have always rendered the number as "666," But is it correct? There is another way to see it that, in my opinion, may bring more value to the study...



Offline me again

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Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2012, 10:36:16 PM »
I'm going to go against all traditional teaching and say the number we're supposed to be counting is not 666.

KJV
Rev 13:18 
Here is wisdom.
Let him that hath understanding
count the number of the beast:
for it is the number of a man;
and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

his number is chi xi stigma.

Scholars throughout the centuries have always rendered the number as "666," But is it correct? There is another way to see it that, in my opinion, may bring more value to the study...

Below is a cut-and-paste on a theory of how the original Greek symbols were incorrectly translated into 666:

Below (left) are photos of Greek symbols translated in the Bible as 666.  The gold symbol (bottom and right) is Arabic for "Allah" when turned and mirrored.  Additionally, crossed swords are a symbol for Islam.  So in 666 we may find symbols for both "Islam" and "Allah".



Unvalidated Source:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam__quran_and_666.htm
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Quasar

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Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2012, 12:09:33 PM »
Thanks for sharing that link.  The number of the beast is pretty unanamous as related to the many Bible translations, per the following:

http://bible.cc/revelation/13-18.htm


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Nats

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Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2012, 05:30:34 PM »
Hi me again,  :)
are you buying that theory?
I'm not, regarding Rev.13:18
The Hebrew play's a part in this though.
The Greek play's apart in this too. (obviously)

1st thing is, Who is it talking to?
Him/her that has understanding.

What does it tell those of understanding to do?
Count the number.

One can't have or be given understanding without a real good working knowledge of the scriptures. Our answers are in the scriptures.

I agree the number 666 is unanamously thought to be correct and understand how they get 6,60,600 = 666.
I don't have any problem with that.
I just don't think it's what we're supposed to be looking at or for. I'm still the only one I know that considers it to be something else. But I take it for what it says to do to find the wisdom in it.

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Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2012, 06:21:37 PM »
Hi me again,  :)
are you buying that theory?

I have no idea! But it's an interesting theory nonetheless!  :o

Quote

I'm not, regarding Rev.13:18
The Hebrew play's a part in this though.
The Greek play's apart in this too. (obviously)

1st thing is, Who is it talking to?
Him/her that has understanding.

What does it tell those of understanding to do?
Count the number.

One can't have or be given understanding without a real good working knowledge of the scriptures. Our answers are in the scriptures.

I agree the number 666 is unanamously thought to be correct and understand how they get 6,60,600 = 666.
I don't have any problem with that.
I just don't think it's what we're supposed to be looking at or for. I'm still the only one I know that considers it to be something else. But I take it for what it says to do to find the wisdom in it.

What is your theory?  :o
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Quasar

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Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2012, 10:26:23 AM »
Hi me again,  :)
are you buying that theory?
I'm not, regarding Rev.13:18
The Hebrew play's a part in this though.
The Greek play's apart in this too. (obviously)

1st thing is, Who is it talking to?
Him/her that has understanding.

What does it tell those of understanding to do?
Count the number.

One can't have or be given understanding without a real good working knowledge of the scriptures. Our answers are in the scriptures.

I agree the number 666 is unanamously thought to be correct and understand how they get 6,60,600 = 666.
I don't have any problem with that.
I just don't think it's what we're supposed to be looking at or for. I'm still the only one I know that considers it to be something else. But I take it for what it says to do to find the wisdom in it.



Keep in mind, the vision was provided to us by the scribe for Jesus own testimony, his apostle John.  Most every translation of the Bible shows the number of the beast to be 666.  With that having been said, I'm curious, like me again, what is your opinion?


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Stan

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Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2012, 10:40:28 AM »
Just an interesting thought, if you add all the existing number/letters up to and including 500 you get

I = 1
V = 5
X = 10
L = 50
C = 100
D = 500

Total is 666
Courage

Stan

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Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things. Philippian

Offline Quasar

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Re: THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2012, 11:20:30 AM »
Just an interesting thought, if you add all the existing number/letters up to and including 500 you get

I = 1
V = 5
X = 10
L = 50
C = 100
D = 500

Total is 666



Interesting observation,  What does 666 look like in Roman numerals ?

666 = DCLXVI

Looks very much the same as yours, doesn't it ?


Merry Christmas and a Happy 2013 = MMXIII, guys!


Quasar
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 11:27:43 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

 

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