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Offline Catalyst

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What is a Christian
« on: August 03, 2012, 08:54:23 PM »
People ask, are you a Christian?

I can't answer them.  I know what my faith is, and it's more unshakable than most.  But, I don't know what it means to them.  So if I answer it will put me in a box I don't belong, OR they will figure out I don't meet their standards and then I look the liar.  Dilemma.

Example.  If I say to a person who has been through some rough attacks from ultra conservatives, say a gay person, and he asks if I'm Christian, I'm now a gay basher in his head.  And the deconstruction of the box takes ...... months? Where being stuck in the box takes seconds.

If I speak with a charismatic, then I must be indwelled by the Spirit (ignoring Romans 8:9) and speak in tongues.  If I don't speak in tongues, at best I'm pathetically tolerated, at worse they are angry I lied.  OR, maybe I need to be bit in the bum by a rattle snake.  There are numerous examples, these are just some easy ones.  They could be as simple as sprinkled, or dunked. 

Even when they agree on the surface, if you ask Socratic questions, drilling down, you will find a place that you disagree. 

So, what IS a Christian?

I contend if you have a room of 100 people, you get 110 answers, thus rendering the title useless and ultimately a social tag, or an appeal to authority.

I won't use it anymore.  I will go out of my way to explain my faith.  By their terms I nearly always meet the requirements.  What they label me I can't control.  But, I can add to the label, or better define their label. 

What do you suggest, think, define the word as?

Offline John Oscar

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Re: What is a Christian
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2012, 09:43:23 PM »
A follower of Jesus Christ, who believes Him as God, Savior, and Lord.
John O


Offline Catalyst

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Re: What is a Christian
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2012, 10:03:26 PM »
A follower of Jesus Christ, who believes Him as God, Savior, and Lord.

LDS, Catholics, etc... believe that.  But, what does BELIEVES in Him mean?  If you believe in Him, you can move mountains, if you know Him you don't continue to sin, if you do you haven't even met him yet.   When do you believe. 

What is LORD?  Most theology I hear these days, has Christ closer to Santa Claus than Lord.  I'm not trying to belittle anyone or any denomination.  I'm speaking of the teaching not the people.

Offline Quasar

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Re: What is a Christian
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2012, 09:50:00 AM »
Quote from: Catalyst
So, what IS a Christian?

I contend if you have a room of 100 people, you get 110 answers, thus rendering the title useless and ultimately a social tag, or an appeal to authority.

I won't use it anymore.  I will go out of my way to explain my faith.  By their terms I nearly always meet the requirements.  What they label me I can't control.  But, I can add to the label, or better define their label. 

What do you suggest, think, define the word as?


A Christian, from the first church at Antioch in the first century, has remained the same, consisting only of those who believed/received Jesus as their Lord and Savior.  Established by Jesus in such passages as Jn.3:16; 10:27-29 and 11:25-26.

The focus should always be on Jesus Christ, not on any church denomination or anything else.

When asked what a Christian is, my answer is, confessing my sins and professing my belief in Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead, according to Rom.10:9-10.

Are you too ashamed of the using the name of Jesus that prevents you from an honest testimony?


Quasar 
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Catalyst

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Re: What is a Christian
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2012, 10:10:42 AM »
Don't be so smugly arrogant and accusatory.  I gave a detailed reason why I don't use the word and you avoided all of it to take a pot shot at me.  Really "CHRISTIAN" of you.  And you wonder why I won't use the name?  I don't want to be associated with the attitude you just displayed.   You can address ANY of the issues I painted and suggest I am afraid of a "name" and have a valid point.  Until then, it's just a cheap character shot. 

Secondly, CHRIST isn't a name it's a title.  Jesus the Christ.  Or Joshua if you were a family member.  Same name, different original languages. 

Thirdly, I liked your definition.

Help me understand a phrase of yours so I can get the right picture... "received Jesus as their Lord and Savior"  I'm not sure how "received" fits with Lord and Savior.  This is a pedantic or semantic thing for sure.  But I'd rather ask to understand, than assume incorrectly.

Ty for a kinder response this time.


A Christian, from the first church at Antioch in the first century, has remained the same, consisting only of those who believed/received Jesus as their Lord and Savior.  Established by Jesus in such passages as Jn.3:16; 10:27-29 and 11:25-26.

The focus should always be on Jesus Christ, not on any church denomination or anything else.

When asked what a Christian is, my answer is, confessing my sins and professing my belief in Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead, according to Rom.10:9-10.

Are you too ashamed of the using the name of Jesus that prevents you from an honest testimony?


Quasar

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Re: What is a Christian
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2012, 10:35:03 AM »
So, what IS a Christian?

A Christian hears the voice of God.

John 10:27

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Catalyst

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Re: What is a Christian
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 07:01:04 PM »
Is that part of your answer, or your whole answer.  Lucifer and Legion heard the voice of God...

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Re: What is a Christian
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2012, 12:12:27 PM »
Is that part of your answer, or your whole answer.  Lucifer and Legion heard the voice of God...

Salvation is only for humans and not for the devil. God clothed Himself with flesh, as Jesus, and He died on the cross for us. He did not die and resurrect for the devil. Hell is made for the devil and his angels.

Romans 1

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Matt. 25

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


If you hear the voice of the Holy Spirit, then repent of your false doctrines (homosexuality) and accept Jesus and live in eternity with Him in heaven. If you reject the movement of the Holy Spirit when he speaks to your heart, it is unforgivable.

Matt. 12

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Catalyst

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Re: What is a Christian
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2012, 07:37:11 PM »
Salvation is only for humans and not for the devil. God clothed Himself with flesh, as Jesus, and He died on the cross for us. He did not die and resurrect for the devil. Hell is made for the devil and his angels.

Ok, that's why I asked, because "hears the voice of God" is way to broad a stroke.  So, there is more to it than hearing his voice.  Right?


Romans 1

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Matt. 25

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


If you hear the voice of the Holy Spirit, then repent of your false doctrines (homosexuality) and accept Jesus and live in eternity with Him in heaven. If you reject the movement of the Holy Spirit when he speaks to your heart, it is unforgivable.

Matt. 12

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


???????  Last four verses threw me.

Matt 5:48, love as completely and providentially as GOd does.
1 john 4:16, if you don't love right, you aren't in Him and He's not in you. 
Love neighbor, and God.
Neighbor includes enemies.
If they ask for your coat, give them your shirt as well.


Love is the standard as best I can tell.  You could hear his voice one on one personally, but if the love isn't right, the 4:16 1 j verse says it's a fail....

Offline Catalyst

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Re: What is a Christian
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2012, 09:11:22 AM »

If you hear the voice of the Holy Spirit, then repent of your false doctrines (homosexuality) and accept Jesus and live in eternity with Him in heaven. If you reject the movement of the Holy Spirit when he speaks to your heart, it is unforgivable.

************* I'm sorry when did you replace God as the determiner of all doctrine?  Why do you willfully turn your back on Christ's doctrines to promote d3humanizing the gay community?  If GOD loves and provides for His enemies, why won't you, the members of His Church?

Doctrine, god loves and provides for His enemies, you are to love as perfectly as god does, that is jesus' doctrine, not mine. 

If they ask for your coat give them your shirt also, again not my li e, but you feel justified to disregard HIS words to take a jab at me?  I hate to tell you, but whatever charism is flowing through your veins, justifying that treatment to the glbt community isn't the Spirit of God, its hate justification. 

Being homosexual is only a sin if you are having the sex, that's all that is said biblically.  I'd be ashamed for ignoring Christ to justify ill behavior. *********


Offline Catalyst

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Re: What is a Christian
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2012, 09:22:03 AM »

A Christian, from the first church at Antioch in the first century, has remained the same, consisting only of those who believed/received Jesus as their Lord and Savior.  Established by Jesus in such passages as Jn.3:16; 10:27-29 and 11:25-26.

The focus should always be on Jesus Christ, not on any church denomination or anything else.

When asked what a Christian is, my answer is, confessing my sins and professing my belief in Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead, according to Rom.10:9-10.
Are you too ashamed of the using the name of Jesus that prevents you from an honest testimony?
Quasar
     
.   Boy, you sure do like to promote yourself as the most holy, don't you.  You got real elaborate in your efforts of strawman construction.  That is excessive effort to avoid the op and create a false dilemma.

What a Xian was in FIRST century Antioch is irrevelan to the op.  It is dealing with what people think it is today.  Studies have shown most people see being a Xian means you have to hate gays, harrass women getting abortions, be snotty, hateful and unloving.  That isn't my words, nor my study.  So, if one of those people polled ask if you are Xian is that what you hope they think of you?  Because if you say yes, then that is how you just defined yourself in their eyes. 

Your insinuation I am ashamed of anything is accusatory, inflammatory, unmerited, posturing at my expense, offensive and unprocessed chicken fertilizer.  It has no place in a positive conversation.  But, quasar this is typically the only type of p8st I see from you.  If your nature is that needful of putting others down, to justify yourself, I would suggest the problem is inside of you, not with me. 

Some would define Xian is indwelling of the Spirit.  Ok, some say that means you speak 8n tongues, some pray in tongues, some say all of the galatians gifts, scripture says you aren't in the flesh if indwelled by the spirit, this is a small example, if you answer any of them that you are Xian, it may not mean what you consider it to mean, so in their eyes you are a liar if you claim and deny what they think it is. 

So keep your personal affrontery home and out of my face, stop hollow posturing, and converse on the op or don't converse.

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Re: What is a Christian
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 09:58:52 AM »
************* I'm sorry when did you replace God as the determiner of all doctrine?  Why do you willfully turn your back on Christ's doctrines to promote d3humanizing the gay community?  If GOD loves and provides for His enemies, why won't you, the members of His Church?

Doctrine, god loves and provides for His enemies, you are to love as perfectly as god does, that is jesus' doctrine, not mine. 

If they ask for your coat give them your shirt also, again not my li e, but you feel justified to disregard HIS words to take a jab at me?  I hate to tell you, but whatever charism is flowing through your veins, justifying that treatment to the glbt community isn't the Spirit of God, its hate justification. 

Being homosexual is only a sin if you are having the sex, that's all that is said biblically.  I'd be ashamed for ignoring Christ to justify ill behavior. *********

Are you saying that homosexuality is not a sin?
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Catalyst

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Re: What is a Christian
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 11:39:51 AM »
Are you saying that homosexuality is not a sin?

Are you deliberately trying to misrepresent what I said? 

You can be homosexual and not be in sin.  Scripture makes that painfully clear in that ONLY the act of homosexual sex is the sin.

To give you an idea about how inherently bigoted the church as a whole is on this topic, there is no other sin that they give such furror over, such angst, and go to such extremes to justify hate mongering...

The commandments say it's the having sex that is the sin.  A homosexual is homosexual if they are virgin, or celibate.  You show me the win they would be in and we can talk.

You will say "lust" blah blah blah, which is actually going to be a condemnation more against the straight community than the glbt as there are more straight and more lusts by definition.  Anyone can lust, being homosexaual is no more guarantee of lusting than being heterosexual is.


If you are saying other wise, I'm going to ask for scripture.

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Re: What is a Christian
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 03:58:06 PM »
Are you deliberately trying to misrepresent what I said? 

You can be homosexual and not be in sin.  Scripture makes that painfully clear in that ONLY the act of homosexual sex is the sin.

Are you saying that homosexual acts are not sinful?
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Catalyst

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Re: What is a Christian
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2012, 11:05:48 AM »
What happened to my response to this?  I must be losing my mind...

Homosexuality isn't a sin.  Whether they were born that way, or just find their inclination to be romantically interested in the same sex.  There is no sin in that. 

Biblically the only time a sin is mentioned is in the act of homosexuality.  And there are arguments that even make more "leeway" of that that can't be concluded either way, for their position or for "our" side of the table. 

People have a tendency to swear anything inconclusive falls to their side and have their own thinking to justify that.  Just like you are going to insist that being homosexual is a sin, by ignoring that it's the acts that are the sin in scripture.  So you will make the argument that if you are homnosexual you either must do the acts uncontrollably, or you lust when you aren't acing.  Neither of which has any logical, factual, nor philosophical foundation to stand on.   Now, in honesty, I don't know if you'll make those arguments or not.  I'm just speaking to what I usually hear at this point.

You show me a place that being homosexual is a sin, and not just the act of being homosexual and we can talk.

The "effiminate" verse was brought up, I've answered that.  I'm sure it's not accepted, but I've given reason that is more than opinion why it doesn't have to be read as it was delivered to me.   In Greece, in particular areas of the empire you had more decadence than others.  A philosopher from central america named Marcuse posited that civilizations fall when so many at the top are the wealthiest, that they forget to do what made them the money, lose discipline, and pursue decadence.  That's where Greece was, then Rome after it.  Interestingly enough their military conquests and governorships gave the empire the discipline they needed to stay together as long as they did.  ANYWAY, it is known there were men, who dressed as women, acted as women, to be treated like women.  That would have been a particular type of person who happened to be homosexual, not a condemnation of all homosexuals.

What sin does a virgin homosexual commit?  How about a celibate homosexual?  What sin do they commit that is unique to being homosexual and isn't a sin a heterosexual is as likely or more likely to commit?  Most "effeminate men" in our world, cross dressers are heterosexual.  And nearly a third of the known people in studies do it with their wife there.  :0  what a dilemma for the effeminate concept to condemn homosexuals.  We certainly see  that the appearance of those concepts today is not the same as it was back then. S o condemning one today because it held the same name in description as a different issue today holds, well, we have problems then.  Apples and watermelons, all of that...

I would make a point that no matter what the topic a good Chistian will work homosexual condemnation into it, even if they word it in a way to accuse someone passive aggressively which allows for full denial as being one.   :|

That was offensive.  The fact you are in a position of authority here and pulled that stunt, is even more offensive.  You are entitled to your opinion, I really could give a leaping frogs bruised behind over your thoughts of me and any sex I may have.  But, it would have nothing to do with the arguments.  bringing homosexuality into the chat was about as much a non sequitur as shrimp is in a discussion of healthy fruits. 

 

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