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Author Topic: Are there mistakes in the bible?  (Read 4271 times)

Offline me again

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Are there mistakes in the bible?
« on: November 14, 2012, 10:15:04 AM »
I always unequivocally told people that "no, there are no mistakes in the bible." Absolutely not!!!! Then I found something interesting.

On St. Paul's road to Damacus, the Lord Jesus appeared to him, knocked him down, blinded him and spoke to him. Did the men that were accompaning Paul see and hear Jesus? Let's look at what the scriptures reveal:

"And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man." (Acts 9:7)

"And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me." (Acts 22:9)


Well, which is it? 
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 10:17:41 AM by me again »
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Are there mistakes in the bible?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2012, 09:28:42 PM »
They saw a light, not a man.  Pretty easy if you read it carefully :p
John O


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Re: Are there mistakes in the bible?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2012, 09:09:34 AM »
They saw a light, not a man.  Pretty easy if you read it carefully :p

Good point. I'll read it again:

"...hearing a voice..." (Acts 9:7)

"...heard not the voice..." (Acts 22:9)


Hummmmm there still seems to be a difference. Seriously, do you see it?
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline rstrats

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Re: Are there mistakes in the bible?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2012, 07:34:27 PM »
me again,

re: “Hummmmm there still seems to be a difference.”

Indeed there does.  Much the same as Mark 8:12 and Luke 11:29:



Mark 8:12 - "Why does this generation seek a sign?  Assuredly, I say to you, no sign shall be given to this generation"

Luke 11:29 - "This is an evil generation. It seeks a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet."

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Re: Are there mistakes in the bible?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2012, 09:39:57 AM »
me again,

re: “Hummmmm there still seems to be a difference.”

Indeed there does.  Much the same as Mark 8:12 and Luke 11:29:



Mark 8:12 - "Why does this generation seek a sign?  Assuredly, I say to you, no sign shall be given to this generation"

Luke 11:29 - "This is an evil generation. It seeks a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet."

The perfect Holy Spirit works through imperfect human vessels (scribes). That's the only thing I can figure.
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Are there mistakes in the bible?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2012, 06:08:12 PM »
As a police officer, you should appreciate the variety of eyewitness testimony of people who all saw exactly the same thing.  Different aspects were highlighted for different audiences.
John O


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Re: Are there mistakes in the bible?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2012, 06:48:23 PM »
As a police officer, you should appreciate the variety of eyewitness testimony of people who all saw exactly the same thing.  Different aspects were highlighted for different audiences.
Excellent points. So which eyewitness is correct? Or are they both correct?  :o
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline rstrats

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Re: Are there mistakes in the bible?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2012, 07:16:41 PM »
me again,

re:  "Or are they both correct?"

Or both incorrect?

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Re: Are there mistakes in the bible?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2012, 09:05:16 AM »
Quote from: Acts 9:7 & Acts 22:9
"And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man." (Acts 9:7)

"And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me." (Acts 22:9)
me again,

re:  "Or are they both correct?"

Or both incorrect?

I don't think that they can both be incorrect. Here are some possibilities:

1. Some men saw the light (or a man), while others didn't; and some men heard the voice, while others didn't.

 -- or --

2. (a) The scribe in Acts 9:7 wrote it backwards, accidentally, sort of like dyslexia. The scribe was not present, but was just re-telling (re-writing) what he had been told.
(b) Acts 22:9 is written by Paul because it is in first person e.g. I. Since Acts 22:9 is written by Paul, it is probably a more accurate reflection of what really happened.

I have never read any commentary on this discrepancy and have never Googled it. Yet.
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline John Oscar

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Re: Are there mistakes in the bible?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2012, 06:25:14 PM »
Paul didn't write Acts, Luke did.  Luke was writting a personal letter and/or memoirs to his sponsor/patron Theopolis.
John O


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Re: Are there mistakes in the bible?
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2012, 03:39:40 PM »
Paul didn't write Acts, Luke did.  Luke was writting a personal letter and/or memoirs to his sponsor/patron Theopolis.

I'm taking a class now where the professor said that the author of Acts isn't exactly known and it may be multiple authors. Acts 9:7 & Acts 22:9 seems to bear this out e.g. Acts 9:7 is written in third person ("the men which journeyed with him" e.g. Paul) verses Acts 22:9 which is written in first person ("the voice of him that spoke to me [Paul]").

A quick internet search reveals that many people believe that Luke wrote Acts. However, it is not certain. For example, here is an interesting read:

"Acts of the Apostles was written by the same author as Luke's Gospel. Both were anonymous until late in the second century, when the Church Fathers attempted to assign authorship to each of the gospel accounts. They felt that Luke and Acts must have been written by a well educated acquaintance of St Paul, and that Luke the physician best fitted that description. However, there is no real evidence that Luke the physician was the real author." Source: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_wrote_Acts_of_the_Apostles

Getting back to the original question:

"...the men heard a voice." (Acts 9:7)

"...they heard not the voice." (Acts 22:9)


Did the men that were with Paul hear the voice or not?  :o

One website said that they heard the Lord speaking in tongues to Paul, so they heard the voice, but they didn't understand it. Lots of theories out there.

"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Quasar

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Re: Are there mistakes in the bible?
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2012, 10:08:24 AM »
Hi guys,

From the NIV is the following translation of Acts 9:7:

"The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless: they heard the SOUND but DID NOT SEE ANYONE."

From the NASB:

"The men traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one."


There are errors in the Bible, but they are all from mistranslations by scribes.  Those I have found were done purposely to force the original text to fit their belief system.  All from RCC sources.

There are others that have been caused through transliteration problems from the translation of language to another.


Quasar
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 10:14:42 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

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Re: Are there mistakes in the bible?
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2012, 08:19:38 PM »
There are errors in the Bible, but they are all from mistranslations by scribes.  Those I have found were done purposely to force the original text to fit their belief system.  All from RCC sources.

Can you please give an example(s)?
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Offline Quasar

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Re: Are there mistakes in the bible?
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2012, 12:06:17 AM »
Can you please give an example(s)?


2 Thes.2:2 = KJV "Day of Christ"   Should be Day of the Lord as most every other translation has it.  Because Paul used that tern ti denote the 70th Week of Daniel/the seven year tribulation.

The Day of Christ is when He returns for the rapture of the Church, in Jn.14:2-4, 28; 1 Thes.4:16-17 and 2 Thes.2:3, 7.

As well as: Translation History of apostasia and discessio:

In vs 3:  "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th Week/the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction."  Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation.  Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below. 
 
 The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the Latin word discessio, also meaning ' departure.' " Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of " departure" in 1611 A.D.?

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

There is more to this issue but there is not enough time for me to continue with it at this late hour tonight, from an article by Dr. Thomas Ice, PhD. at the following:

http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/TheRapturein2Thessalonians2_3.html


Quasar

« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 12:19:48 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Are there mistakes in the bible?
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2012, 11:04:41 AM »
To continue with the issue pertaining to 2 Thes.2:3 NIV, in which we have determined the original translation read: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day [The day of the Lord from vs 2] will not come until the APOSTASIA/DISCESSIO [Greek/Latin for DEPARTURE] occurs [first] and the man of lawlessness [the beast/antichrist] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction." [Rev.19:20].

This is the very verse together with verses 7 & 8 that reveal the timing of the pre-trib rapture of the Church.  Which is just before the beast/antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th week/7 year tribulation.  [All three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27 and the rider of the white horse in Rev.6:2].

The DEPARTURE [rapture] of the Church in vs 3 is amplified by Paul in verses 7 & 8:  "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he [the Church] is taken out of the way.  And then the lawless one [beast/antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor [brilliance] of His coming."

So we have DEPARTURE of the Church in vs 3 and TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY in vs 7.

IMO, by the very change the KJV made in verses 2 and 3 [day of Christ and apostasy/falling away] to the original text, which had been properly translated from the time it was written by Paul until the early part of the 17th century, was because of their theological teaching of Amillennialism, which denies both pre-trib and millennialism of any kind, except for some who accept a post-mil rapture.

See the link in my post above this one for the full article by Dr. Thomas Ice, PhD.

[Parenthesis mine]


Quasar
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 11:25:00 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

 

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