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Author Topic: Three Days and Three Nights  (Read 43641 times)

Offline rstrats

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Three Days and Three Nights
« on: November 15, 2012, 12:31:18 PM »


Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently suggest that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely doesn't/can't include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 08:20:07 AM by rstrats »

Offline Quasar

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Re: Three Days and Three Nights
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2012, 10:38:14 PM »
On what day was Jesus crucified and buried on?

The Bible does not explicitly state on which day of the week Jesus was crucified. The two most widely held views are Friday and Wednesday. Some, however, using a synthesis of both the Friday and Wednesday arguments, argue for Thursday as the day.

Jesus said in Matthew 12:40, “For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” Those who argue for a Friday crucifixion say that there is still a valid way in which He could have been considered in the grave for three days. In the Jewish mind of the first century, a part of day was considered as a full day. Since Jesus was in the grave for part of Friday, all of Saturday, and part of Sunday—He could be considered to have been in the grave for three days. One of the principal arguments for Friday is found in Mark 15:42, which notes that Jesus was crucified “the day before the Sabbath.” If that was the weekly Sabbath, i.e. Saturday, then that fact leads to a Friday crucifixion. Another argument for Friday says that verses such as Matthew 16:21 and Luke 9:22 teach that Jesus would rise on the third day; therefore, He would not need to be in the grave a full three days and nights. But while some translations use “on the third day” for these verses, not all do, and not everyone agrees that “on the third day” is the best way to translate these verses. Furthermore, Mark 8:31 says that Jesus will be raised “after” three days.

The Thursday argument expands on the Friday view and argues mainly that there are too many events (some count as many as twenty) happening between Christ's burial and Sunday morning to occur from Friday evening to Sunday morning. Proponents of the Thursday view point out that this is especially a problem when the only full day between Friday and Sunday was Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath. An extra day or two eliminates that problem. The Thursday advocates could reason thus: suppose you haven't seen a friend since Monday evening. The next time you see him it is Thursday morning and you say, “I haven’t seen you in three days” even though it had technically only been 60 hours (2.5 days). If Jesus was crucified on Thursday, this example shows how it could be considered three days.

The Wednesday opinion states that there were two Sabbaths that week. After the first one (the one that occurred on the evening of the crucifixion [Mark 15:42; Luke 23:52-54]), the women purchased spices—note that they made their purchase after the Sabbath (Mark 16:1). The Wednesday view holds that this “Sabbath” was the Passover (see Leviticus 16:29-31, 23:24-32, 39, where high holy days that are not necessarily the seventh day of the week are referred to as the Sabbath). The second Sabbath that week was the normal weekly Sabbath. Note that in Luke 23:56, the women who had purchased spices after the first Sabbath returned and prepared the spices, then “rested on the Sabbath” (Luke 23:56). The argument states that they could not purchase the spices after the Sabbath, yet prepare those spices before the Sabbath—unless there were two Sabbaths. With the two-Sabbath view, if Christ was crucified on Thursday, then the high holy Sabbath (the Passover) would have begun Thursday at sundown and ended at Friday sundown—at the beginning of the weekly Sabbath or Saturday. Purchasing the spices after the first Sabbath (Passover) would have meant they purchased them on Saturday and were breaking the Sabbath.

Therefore, according to the Wednesday viewpoint, the only explanation that does not violate the biblical account of the women and the spices and holds to a literal understanding of Matthew 12:40, is that Christ was crucified on Wednesday. The Sabbath that was a high holy day (Passover) occurred on Thursday, the women purchased spices (after that) on Friday and returned and prepared the spices on the same day, they rested on Saturday which was the weekly Sabbath, then brought the spices to the tomb early Sunday. Jesus was buried near sundown on Wednesday, which began Thursday in the Jewish calendar. Using a Jewish calendar, you have Thursday night (night one), Thursday day (day one), Friday night (night two), Friday day (day two), Saturday night (night three), Saturday day (day three). We do not know exactly when He rose, but we do know that it was before sunrise on Sunday (John 20:1, Mary Magdalene came “while it was still dark”), so He could have risen as early as just after sunset Saturday evening, which began the first day of the week to the Jews.

A possible problem with the Wednesday view is that the disciples who walked with Jesus on the road to Emmaus did so on “the same day” of His resurrection (Luke 24:13). The disciples, who do not recognize Jesus, tell Him of Jesus' crucifixion (24:21) and say that “today is the third day since these things happened” (24:22). Wednesday to Sunday is four days. A possible explanation is that they may have been counting since Wednesday evening at Christ's burial, which begins the Jewish Thursday, and Thursday to Sunday could be counted as three days.

Edit by Quasar:  Except for the fact He was buried before sunset, preceding Preparation day, on the day He was crucified. Theoretically on Wednesday, in this case, and therefore He would have risen sometime on Saturday and observed for the first time on the first day of the week].

In the grand scheme of things, it is not all that important to know what day of the week Christ was crucified. If it were very important, then God's Word would have clearly communicated the day and timeframe. What is important is that He did die and that He physically, bodily rose from the dead. What is equally important is the reason He died—to take the punishment that all sinners deserve. John 3:16 and 3:36 both proclaim that putting your trust in Him results in eternal life! This is equally true whether He was crucified on a Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday.

Recommended Resource: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus by Gary Habermas.

From:   http://www.gotquestions.org/three-days.html

The following is more input on the subject from another source:

 http://www.sabbath.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/HWA/k/463/subj/sabbath/Resurrection-Not-Sunday.htm


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline rstrats

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Re: Three Days and Three Nights
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2012, 08:58:55 AM »
Quasar,

Thanks for the comments.

Do you have any information with regard to the request for the documentation asked for in the OP?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 09:01:04 AM by rstrats »

Offline Quasar

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Re: Three Days and Three Nights
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2012, 12:15:29 PM »
You're welcome rstrats.


"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline saved

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Re: Three Days and Three Nights
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2012, 02:29:23 PM »
Actually it is very important to have the right day that Christ died as well as the right day He raised so as to silence the skeptics. Here is an article that gives the sequences. Actually it is in two parts.
http://www.gerald285.com/index.php?p=1_29_Crucifixion-Week-1

http://www.gerald285.com/index.php?p=1_30_Crucifixion-Week-2
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 02:33:45 PM by saved »
Isaiah 48:18,Oh that you had paid attention to my commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Three Days and Three Nights
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2012, 03:22:38 PM »
The links you have given, Saved, reveals Juesus died on a Wednesday as I have pointed out on this thread as well as this one:

http://theologyreview.com/index.php/topic,7394.0.html

The confusion over this issue is because most people do not realize there was two Sabbaths the week Jesus died and was buried.  The day of preparation mentioned in Mk.15:42 reveals Jesus burial on preparation day, the day before the Passover Sabbath, which was on a Thursday.

There is no such thing as "preparation day" for the regular weekly Saturday Sabbaths.  That is why Friday was not the day Jesus was buried and why He was in the tomb for three days and three nights.


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Stan

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Re: Three Days and Three Nights
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2012, 05:02:21 PM »
I really wish someone could say in less than 100 words why it is important that he died on which day.

If it can not be said in 100 words or less, it is more than likely not that important.

Just my opinion.
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Stan

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Offline Quasar

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Re: Three Days and Three Nights
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2012, 10:43:37 PM »
Hi Stan,

IMO, the reason for the controversial issue is because of Jesus remark in Mt.12:40:  "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a hugh fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

For eons the Church has believed Jesus died and was buried on Friday, because the day of preparation referred to in Mt.27:62, LK.19:54 and Jn.19:42 was thought to be Friday, due to Saturday always being the weekly Sabbath. 

But If Jesus died and was buried on Friday, there is no way He could have possibly spent three days and three nights in the tomb, and be resurrected on the first day of the week, Sunday.

But there is never a preparation day for the weekly Sabbath, but rather, in this case, it was for the Passover, that took place on Thursday in that particular week, as recorded in Lk.21:7-8.

Therefore, the issue is resolved, when it is understood there was two Sabbaths that week, and the day of Preparation was the Wednesday Jesus died and was buried preceded the Passover Sabbath on Thursday.  Which verifies Jesus three days and three nights in the heart f the earth.


Quasar
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 10:46:15 PM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline rstrats

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Re: Three Days and Three Nights
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2012, 07:37:26 AM »
Quasar,

re:  "... Juesus died on a Wednesday..."

How do you reconcile a 4th day crucifixion with Luke 24:21 which indicates that it couldn't have occurred any sooner than the 5th day of the week?

Offline Quasar

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Re: Three Days and Three Nights
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2012, 04:08:35 PM »
Quasar,

re:  "... Juesus died on a Wednesday..."

How do you reconcile a 4th day crucifixion with Luke 24:21 which indicates that it couldn't have occurred any sooner than the 5th day of the week?



Our Bible gives us the answer, as clear as crystal:

"Therefore, the issue is resolved, when it is understood there was two Sabbaths that week, and the day of Preparation was the Wednesday Jesus died and was buried preceded the Passover Sabbath on Thursday.  Which verifies Jesus three days and three nights in the heart f the earth."


Quasar
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 11:08:40 PM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline rstrats

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Re: Three Days and Three Nights
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2012, 05:07:11 PM »
Quasar,

re:  "...the issue is resolved, when it is understood there was two Sabbaths that week..."

That doesn't answer the question:  "How do you reconcile a 4th day crucifixion with Luke 24:21 which indicates that it couldn't have occurred any sooner than the 5th day of the week?"

Offline Quasar

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Re: Three Days and Three Nights
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2012, 11:19:34 PM »
Quasar,

re:  "...the issue is resolved, when it is understood there was two Sabbaths that week..."

That doesn't answer the question:  "How do you reconcile a 4th day crucifixion with Luke 24:21 which indicates that it couldn't have occurred any sooner than the 5th day of the week?"



Why does Lk.24:21 conflict with anything I have written that Jesus was crucified on Preparation day, the day before Passover, the Jewish Sabbath on Thursday?  Followed by Friday and the segfventh day Sabbath on Saturday!

Tell me why you don't think it resolves the issue.  In the meanwhile, review the following:

 http://www.sabbath.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/HWA/k/463/subj/sabbath/Resurrection-Not-Sunday.htm


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline rstrats

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Re: Three Days and Three Nights
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2012, 08:46:14 AM »
Quasar,

re:  "Tell me why you don't think it resolves the issue."

It was the first day of the week, and Cleopas and another were traveling to Emmaus.  While they were going, they talked about the things that had recently transpired. (Luke 24:13-14)

The Messiah - in disguise - met up with them and asked what they were talking about. Cleopas answered: "...have you not known the things which happened there [in Jerusalem] in these days?" (Luke 24:15-18)

Cleopas was then asked:  "What things?"  (verse 19)  To which he replied:  "The things concerning Jesus of Nazareth...and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to be condemed to death, and crucified Him...Indeed besides all this, today is the third day since these things happened." (verses 19-21) 

So if the first day of the week was" the third day since these things happened" and since the last thing mentioned was the crucifixion, then the seventh day of the week would have been the second day since it happened.  This would make the sixth day of the week the first day SINCE it happened, which would make the fifth day of the week the day that the crucifixion occurred and not the fourth day.

Now I imagine you'll counter by saying that "these things" didn't end with the crucifixion, but continued on through "the setting of the seal and the watch over the tomb the following day".  But that would only be an assumption in order to make the event fit with your 4th day crucifixion idea. 

Offline Quasar

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Re: Three Days and Three Nights
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2012, 11:10:38 AM »
Your point is well taken, but it is important to remember that nowhere in the Bible does it state Jesus rose on the first day of the week.  But rather, it was discovered that He had risen on the first day of the week.  See the following excerpt I keep referring you to you seem to be side stepping from:

http://www.sabbath.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/HWA/k/463/subj/sabbath/Resurrection-Not-Sunday.htm


>>>What Sabbath Followed the Crucifixion?

Now we come to an objection some may raise, yet the very point which proves this truth. Perhaps you have noticed that the Scriptures say the day after the crucifixion was a Sabbath. Hence, for centuries, people have blindly assumed the crucifixion was on Friday.

Now we have shown by all four Gospels that the crucifixion day was called "the preparation." The preparation day for the Sabbath. But for what Sabbath?

John's Gospel gives the definite answer: "It was the preparation of the Passover."

"For that sabbath day was an high day" (John 19:14, 31).

Just what is a "high day"? Ask any Jew! He will tell you it is one of the annual holy days, or feast days. The Israelites observed seven of these every year—every one called a Sabbath! Annual Sabbaths fall on certain annual calendar dates, and on different days of the week in different years, just like the Roman holidays now observed. These Sabbaths might fall on Monday, on Thursday, or on Sunday.

If you will notice the following texts, you will see these annual holy days were all called Sabbath days: Leviticus 16:31; 23:24, 26-32, 39.

Notice Matthew 26:2: "Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified." And if you will follow through this chapter you will see that Jesus was crucified on the Passover!

And what was the Passover? In the twelfth chapter of Exodus you will find the story of the original Passover. The children of Israel killed the lambs, and struck the blood over the doorposts and on the side posts of their houses, and wherever the blood had thus been applied the death angel passed over that house, sparing it from death. Following the Passover was a holy convocation or annual Sabbath.

Observe the dates: "And in the fourteenth day of the first month is THE PASSOVER of the Lord. And in the fifteenth day of this month is the FEAST" (Numbers 28:16-17).

The Passover lamb, killed every year on the 14th of the first month called "Abib," was a type of Christ, the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. Christ is our Passover, sacrificed for us (I Corinthians 5:7).

Jesus was slain on the very same day the Passover had been slain every year. He was crucified on the 14th of Abib, the first Hebrew month of the year. And this day, the Passover, was the day before—and the preparation for—the Feast day, or annual high day Sabbath, which occurred on the 15th of Abib. This Sabbath might occur on any day of the week. Frequently it occurs, and is observed even today, on Thursday. For instance, this "high-day" Sabbath came on Thursday in 1972, 1975 and 1979, and will occur on Thursday in 1982, 1986 and 1989.

And the Hebrew calendar shows that in the year Jesus was crucified, the 14th of Abib, Passover day, the day Jesus was crucified, was Wednesday. And the annual Sabbath was Thursday. This was the Sabbath that drew on as Joseph of Arimathea hastened to bury the body of Jesus late that Wednesday afternoon. There were two separate Sabbaths that week!
 
Now which day of the week was the resurrection day?

The first investigators, Mary Magdalene and her companions, came to the sepulcher on the first day of the week (Sunday) very early, while it was yet dark, as the sun was beginning to rise, at dawn (Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1).

Now here are the texts most people have supposed stated the resurrection was at sunrise Sunday morning. But they do not say that!

When the women arrived, the tomb was already open! At that time Sunday morning while it was yet dark, Jesus was not there! Notice how the angel says, "He is not here, but is risen" (see Mark 16:6; Luke 24:6; Matthew 28:5-6).

Jesus was already risen at sunset Sunday morning! Of course He was. He rose from the grave in the late afternoon, near sunset!

And since we know Christ was buried late Wednesday afternoon, and that the resurrection took place at the same time of day three days later, we now know the resurrection of Christ occurred late Saturday afternoon.

The Sabbath day ended at sunset. It was late on that day, before the beginning of the first day of the week. It was not, then, a Sunday resurrection at all. It was a Sabbath resurrection!<<<


So the facts point to Jesus buriel on a Wednesday [Preparation day] at sunset:  To Thursday [Passover Sabbath] at sunset:  Day one.

Thusday [Passover Sabbath] at sunset to Friday at sunset: Day two.

Friday at Sunset to Saturday [Sabbath every week] at sunset: Day three.  72 hours in the tomb fulfilling Mt.12:40.

 There is no way posible for Jesus to have been buried in His tomb if it had been on a Friday at sunset.


Quasar 

 


"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Three Days and Three Nights
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2012, 11:12:56 AM »
Your point is well taken, but it is important to remember that nowhere in the Bible does it state Jesus rose on the first day of the week.  But rather, it was discovered that He had risen on the first day of the week.  See the following excerpt I keep referring you to you seem to be side stepping from:

http://www.sabbath.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/HWA/k/463/subj/sabbath/Resurrection-Not-Sunday.htm


>>>What Sabbath Followed the Crucifixion?

Now we come to an objection some may raise, yet the very point which proves this truth. Perhaps you have noticed that the Scriptures say the day after the crucifixion was a Sabbath. Hence, for centuries, people have blindly assumed the crucifixion was on Friday.

Now we have shown by all four Gospels that the crucifixion day was called "the preparation." The preparation day for the Sabbath. But for what Sabbath?

John's Gospel gives the definite answer: "It was the preparation of the Passover."

"For that sabbath day was an high day" (John 19:14, 31).

Just what is a "high day"? Ask any Jew! He will tell you it is one of the annual holy days, or feast days. The Israelites observed seven of these every year—every one called a Sabbath! Annual Sabbaths fall on certain annual calendar dates, and on different days of the week in different years, just like the Roman holidays now observed. These Sabbaths might fall on Monday, on Thursday, or on Sunday.

If you will notice the following texts, you will see these annual holy days were all called Sabbath days: Leviticus 16:31; 23:24, 26-32, 39.

Notice Matthew 26:2: "Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified." And if you will follow through this chapter you will see that Jesus was crucified on the Passover!

And what was the Passover? In the twelfth chapter of Exodus you will find the story of the original Passover. The children of Israel killed the lambs, and struck the blood over the doorposts and on the side posts of their houses, and wherever the blood had thus been applied the death angel passed over that house, sparing it from death. Following the Passover was a holy convocation or annual Sabbath.

Observe the dates: "And in the fourteenth day of the first month is THE PASSOVER of the Lord. And in the fifteenth day of this month is the FEAST" (Numbers 28:16-17).

The Passover lamb, killed every year on the 14th of the first month called "Abib," was a type of Christ, the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. Christ is our Passover, sacrificed for us (I Corinthians 5:7).

Jesus was slain on the very same day the Passover had been slain every year. He was crucified on the 14th of Abib, the first Hebrew month of the year. And this day, the Passover, was the day before—and the preparation for—the Feast day, or annual high day Sabbath, which occurred on the 15th of Abib. This Sabbath might occur on any day of the week. Frequently it occurs, and is observed even today, on Thursday. For instance, this "high-day" Sabbath came on Thursday in 1972, 1975 and 1979, and will occur on Thursday in 1982, 1986 and 1989.

And the Hebrew calendar shows that in the year Jesus was crucified, the 14th of Abib, Passover day, the day Jesus was crucified, was Wednesday. And the annual Sabbath was Thursday. This was the Sabbath that drew on as Joseph of Arimathea hastened to bury the body of Jesus late that Wednesday afternoon. There were two separate Sabbaths that week!
 
Now which day of the week was the resurrection day?

The first investigators, Mary Magdalene and her companions, came to the sepulcher on the first day of the week (Sunday) very early, while it was yet dark, as the sun was beginning to rise, at dawn (Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1).

Now here are the texts most people have supposed stated the resurrection was at sunrise Sunday morning. But they do not say that!

When the women arrived, the tomb was already open! At that time Sunday morning while it was yet dark, Jesus was not there! Notice how the angel says, "He is not here, but is risen" (see Mark 16:6; Luke 24:6; Matthew 28:5-6).

Jesus was already risen at sunset Sunday morning! Of course He was. He rose from the grave in the late afternoon, near sunset!

And since we know Christ was buried late Wednesday afternoon, and that the resurrection took place at the same time of day three days later, we now know the resurrection of Christ occurred late Saturday afternoon.

The Sabbath day ended at sunset. It was late on that day, before the beginning of the first day of the week. It was not, then, a Sunday resurrection at all. It was a Sabbath resurrection!<<<


So the facts point to Jesus buriel on a Wednesday [Preparation day] at sunset:  To Thursday [Passover Sabbath] at sunset:  Day one.

Thusday [Passover Sabbath] at sunset to Friday at sunset: Day two.

Friday at Sunset to Saturday [Sabbath every week] at sunset: Day three.  72 hours in the tomb fulfilling Mt.12:40.

 There is no way posible for Jesus to have been buried in His tomb if it had been on a Friday at sunset and risen early Sunday morning and fulfilled Mt.12:40.


Quasar
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 11:15:10 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

 

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