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Author Topic: Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false? [Amended]  (Read 5010 times)

Offline Quasar

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Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false? [Amended]
« on: January 18, 2013, 12:27:00 PM »
Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false?


This is an old post that "fell through the cracks" without my response.  These were the last unanswered issues from Rev.W.W.White:

Quote
1. Have we forgotten about the baptism of Jesus? Did you miss that?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 07:44:00 AM by RevJWWhiteJr »

2. Yes, well, be that as it may, thank you for a lengthy (and largely) repeat of the information, (without direct comment or even rebuttal of my own) but I think I explained within your explanations the misunderstandings that non-Trinitarians have and can not see. Setting aside your problem with the 1John passage, I saw God as triune before anyone taught me the "concept". The scripture speaks of all three individually. Jesus speaks of all three individually. Therefore, THE WORD speaks of all three individually.

God - 1. Father 2. Holy Spirit 3. Son
(MIRROR)
Man - 3. body 2. spirit 1. soul

At Jesus' baptism, all three are represented, as well as present. All the passages you "site" can be easily shown to be misrepresented, as your explanations do not agree with the whole of scripture.

At the stoning of Stephen,

Acts 7:55-56
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, (The omnipresent Spirit emanating from The Father) and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Stephen, full of the Holy Ghost, (The Holy Spirit) “saw” Jesus “standing” (the event had gotten Jesus’ attention, as his usual poster in heaven is seated at the right hand of God) on the right hand of God (The Father.)

The Father on the throne, Jesus “at” his right hand, (seated or standing) and The Holy Ghost (The Spirit of God) indwelling believers. And all three are one, because there is only one God, just as there is only one of each of us, body/spirit/soul.

Genesis 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, (1. the body) and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; (2. the spirit) and man became a living soul. (3. the soul)

We can not fully comprehend this concept in its entirety, but we can understand it if we will accept The Word as written.

And one doesn't have to believe in the trinity to be saved, or to be included in the Rapture. But is does make the rest of God's plan clearer to his creation.

It sure makes the walk we take through this life that much more peaceful, knowing whom it is that accompanies us through the journey.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 06:19:22 AM by RevJWWhiteJr »




1. The baptism of Jesus in Jn.1:32-34 does not allude to the teaching of the Trinity.  The dove was not the Holy Spirit, but rather a visible means by God to reveal who His Son was to the people present there at the time.  Spirits cannot be seen by human eyes, as documented in Jn.1:18, as well as Rom.1:20 and Col.1:15.  A description of the Holy Spirit is recorded in Acts 2:2-3 as wind as well as in Jn.3:8.


2. The Trinity is fully refuted by the Scriptures themselves, because it was politically motivated in the 4th and 5th centuries rather than from the Bible.

See the following:  http://mycog.com/trinity6.htm

The following are the Scriptures that reveal God as the Holy Spirit AND Father of Jesus:



God is the Holy Spirit according to the following Scriptures:
 
God is Spirit: Jn.1:18; 4:24; Rom.1:20; 2 Cor.3:17-18; Col.1:15; 1 Tim.1:17; 1 Tim.6:16 Heb.11.27 and 1 Jn.4:12; Ps.51:11; 106:33; 139:7 and 143:10  NIV-All.
 
God is Holy: Lev.11:44-45; Lev.19:2; Isa.43:3; Jos.24:19; 1 Sam.2:2; Job 6:10; Ps.99:3 and 1 Pet.1:15-16.
 
 
The origin of the firstborn over all creation:

 The origin of the pre-incarnate spirit who later became the human Jesus is recorded as His "autobiography," written by Solomon, as he was carried along by the Holy Spirit, in Pr.8:22-36, "The Lord brought me forth before the world began...," confirmed in Col.1:15, the firstborn over all creation.

According to the above, the Scriptures state, God is the Holy Spirit AND Father of Jesus according to Mt.1:20; Lk.1:35 and Heb.10:5.  The Word did not become God the Son until then.  The human Son of God/God the Son, Jesus, did not exist in old testament times, confirming Isa.43:10; Isa.44:6 and Isa.45:5, in addition to Jn.1:1-3 and 14; Jn.17:5; Col.1:16; Heb.1:2; Gen.1:26 and Gen.11:7.

The term Father is the very same title all men receive when they produce children of their own, as the Holy Spirit did when He produced Jesus by the virgin Mary.  Fulfilling His prophecies of 2 Sam.7:14; 1 Chr.17:13 and Ps.2:7.
 
The fact God, the Holy Spirit, produced the human Jesus by the virgin Mary, according to Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35, there is no option to the divinity of Jesus as the Son of God/God the Son.  Confirmed in Ps.45:6-7; Ps.110:1 and Isa.7:14.  Whom God created the Universe by, according to Heb.1:2.   
 
 
Quasar
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 12:15:42 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false? [Amended]
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2013, 10:27:05 AM »
WHAT IS GOD ?   WHO IS THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT ?

Why do trinitarians insist God, whom the Scriptures declare to be the Holy Spirit AND Father, to be two separate persons, when they are one and the same person?   Yet, also insist Jesus and the Son are one person !   With that kind of logic, as the  Scriptures below clearly reveal, God is the Holy Spirit and the Father, one and the same person that trinitarians insist  are two, of their triune formula.  Why is it then by the same logic do they not interpret Jesus and the Son in the same way, as a fourth person of their formula, trinitarians see as one and the same person?  WHICH IS AN ATTEMPT TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!  Completely non-Scriptural!

 
The following reasons are why the Trinity is false and cannot be proven by the Scriptures!

1. God is Spirit: Jn.1:18; Rom.1:20; 2 Cor.3:17-18; Col.1:15; 1 Tim.1:17; 1 Tim.6:16 Heb.11.27 and 1 Jn.4:12.

2. God is Holy: Lev.11:44-45; Lev.19:2; Isa.43:3; Jos.24:19; 1 Sam.2:2; Job 6:10; Ps.99:3 and 1 Pet.1:15-16.

3. According to the above, there is no option to the Scriptural fact, God is the Holy Spirit and Father of Jesus, according to Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35.

4. The origin of the pre-incarnate spirit of the person who later became Jesus, the only begotten Son of God, was brought forth by the Father [Who is the Holy Spirit according to the Scriptures] in Pr.8:22-36, before the world began, the firstborn over all creation, according to Col.1:15. Fulfilling Ps.2:7 and Acts 13:33. Therefore, as the above Scriptures prove, there is no option to the fact the Holy Spirit is the Father of Jesus!

5. As recorded in 3. above, the Scriptures describe God to be the Holy Spirit AND Father, ONE person, NOT TWO!  As documented in 4. above, the Father and the Son are TWO SEPARATE ENTITIES, NOT ONE!  Confirmed in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35.

Why is the trinitarian view false?  From the beginning, the formula for their views come from belief the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit formulate a monogamous Godhead.  As the Scriptures fully describe God to be the Holy Spirit, the term Father, is nothing more than His title.  The very same title all men receive when they produce children of their own.  It never constitutes making two persons out of the person who is the father, as is the case with our one and only God the Holy Spirit, and the one and only Son of God, Jesus Christ.


 
Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false? [Amended]
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2013, 10:30:00 AM »
 Scriptures revealing the fallacy of the Father and the Son BEING A SINGLE PERSON, as claimed by the doctrine of the Trinity.

1. Hebrews 1:5
tells us that Jesus was begotten by His Father. Did He beget Himself?

2. In Matthew 22:44
the Father said Jesus would sit at His right hand until His enemies were made His footstool. Was Jesus to sit at His own right hand?

3. In Matthew 24:36
when Jesus told His disciples that no one knows the day or hour of His return but the Father only, did He really know but made up an excuse not to tell them?

4. In John 14:28
Jesus said His Father was greater than He was. Does this mean He was greater than Himself?

5. In John 17:1
, Jesus prayed to His Father. Was He praying to Himself?

6. In Matthew 27:46
Jesus cried out, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?" Had He forsaken Himself?

7. In John 20:17
Jesus said He would ascend to the Father after His resurrection. Did He ascend to Himself?

8. In Acts 2:24; 3:26; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:33 and 17:31. Rom.10:9: 1 Cor.6:14 and 15:15. 2 Cor.4:14. Gal.1:1. Col.2:12. Heb.13:20. And 1 Pet.1:21.
God raised Jesus from the dead. Did He raise Himself from the dead?

9. In Rom.1:7; 1 Cor.1:3; 2 Cor.1:2; Gal.1:3; Eph.1:2; Phil.1:2; Col.1:2; 1 Thes.1:1; 2 Thes.1:2; 1 Tim.1:2; 2 Tim.1:2; Titus 1:4; Phil.1:3; James 1:1; 2 Pet.1:2; 2 Jn.1:3; Jude 1:2, 3 and Rev.1:4, 5.
Greetings were extended to the Father and to Jesus, but not to the Holy Spirit. Was that not a grave insult, with the Holy Spirit being the third part of the triune Godhead, by the apostles when writing their epistles?

10. In Luke 23:46
Jesus commited His Spirit to the Father. Did He commit His Spirit to Himself?

11. In John 20:17
Jesus told Mary He was returning to His Father and her Father, my God and your God. Was He saying He is His Father and His God?

12. In Rev.20:6
All those who participate in the first resurrection are to be made priests of God and of Christ. Is this saying the Father and the Son are one person?

These and many other biblical passages demonstrate to a rational Bible reader that the Trinity teaching is not only unbiblical, but also utterly illogical!

For the Scriptural description of God that refutes the trinitarian doctrine, review the following:

Partially from: http://www.ucg.org/booklet/god-trinity/seven-scriptures-debunk-trinity-single-being/

Quasar
 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 10:34:07 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

Offline saved

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Re: Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false? [Amended]
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2013, 06:47:41 PM »
The Trinity.
•And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17)

Notice Jesus is on earth, the Spirit descends on Him and the Father speaks from heaven. The Trinity!
Isaiah 48:18,Oh that you had paid attention to my commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false? [Amended]
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2013, 01:22:34 PM »
The Trinity.
•And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17)

Notice Jesus is on earth, the Spirit descends on Him and the Father speaks from heaven. The Trinity!



Would you care to hazard a guess as to why God, who is the Holy Spirit AND Father of Jesus, according to the Scriptures, used a visible means [dove] to identify Jesus to the crowd who was there at the time?  The dove was not the Holy Spirit, identified elsewhere in the Scriptures as like the wind, as in Acts 2:1-3 and in Jn.3:8.

The following reasons are why the Trinity is false and cannot be proven by the Scriptures!

1. God is Spirit: Jn.1:18; Rom.1:20; 2 Cor.3:17-18; Col.1:15; 1 Tim.1:17; 1 Tim.6:16 Heb.11.27 and 1 Jn.4:12.

2. God is Holy: Lev.11:44-45; Lev.19:2; Isa.43:3; Jos.24:19; 1 Sam.2:2; Job 6:10; Ps.99:3 and 1 Pet.1:15-16.

3. According to the above, there is no option to the Scriptural fact, God is the Holy Spirit and Father of Jesus, according to Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35.

More proof has been previously addressed on this thread.


Quasar
 
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

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Re: Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false? [Amended]
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2013, 08:57:41 AM »


Would you care to hazard a guess as to why God, who is the Holy Spirit AND Father of Jesus, according to the Scriptures, used a visible means [dove] to identify Jesus to the crowd who was there at the time?  The dove was not the Holy Spirit, identified elsewhere in the Scriptures as like the wind, as in Acts 2:1-3 and in Jn.3:8.

The following reasons are why the Trinity is false and cannot be proven by the Scriptures!

1. God is Spirit: Jn.1:18; Rom.1:20; 2 Cor.3:17-18; Col.1:15; 1 Tim.1:17; 1 Tim.6:16 Heb.11.27 and 1 Jn.4:12.

2. God is Holy: Lev.11:44-45; Lev.19:2; Isa.43:3; Jos.24:19; 1 Sam.2:2; Job 6:10; Ps.99:3 and 1 Pet.1:15-16.

3. According to the above, there is no option to the Scriptural fact, God is the Holy Spirit and Father of Jesus, according to Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35.

More proof has been previously addressed on this thread.


Quasar
 

You might want to read that passage again. The passage says;
" and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove" not a dove descending as the Spirit.
The Spirit actually did descend according to the passage, but He did so as if a dove. Jesus on earth, the Spirit descends, and The Father in heaven speaking. Consequently the "Trinity."
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 11:44:05 AM by saved »
Isaiah 48:18,Oh that you had paid attention to my commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false? [Amended]
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2013, 11:14:42 PM »
You might want to read that passage again. The passage says;
" and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove" not a dove descending as the Spirit.
The Spirit actually did descend according to the passage, but He did so as if a dove. Jesus on earth, the Spirit descends, and The Father in heaven speaking. Consequently the "Trinity."



I don't need to read the passage again, after studying the Scriptures for 72 years!  Review replies 1. and 2. on this thread, which reveal the Scriptural description of God and origin of Jesus.  As well as  Jn.1:18; Rom.1:20; Col.1:15 and 1 Jn.4:12, declaring God to be invisible, no one has ever seen, except Jesus.

The dove was not the Holy Spirit, as I previously stated, in addition to the fact that the Scriptures declare God to be the Holy Spirit AND Father of Jesus.  All areas of the Scripture that refer to the Lord's visibility to people, such as Moses, Abraham, Jacob and Daniel was that of the pre-incarnate Jesus.

Are you aware of the fact neither Jesus, His disciples nor the Bible ever taught the Trinity?


Quasar
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 11:16:59 PM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

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Re: Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false? [Amended]
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2013, 05:52:42 PM »


I don't need to read the passage again, after studying the Scriptures for 72 years!  Review replies 1. and 2. on this thread, which reveal the Scriptural description of God and origin of Jesus.  As well as  Jn.1:18; Rom.1:20; Col.1:15 and 1 Jn.4:12, declaring God to be invisible, no one has ever seen, except Jesus.

The dove was not the Holy Spirit, as I previously stated, in addition to the fact that the Scriptures declare God to be the Holy Spirit AND Father of Jesus.  All areas of the Scripture that refer to the Lord's visibility to people, such as Moses, Abraham, Jacob and Daniel was that of the pre-incarnate Jesus.

Are you aware of the fact neither Jesus, His disciples nor the Bible ever taught the Trinity?


Quasar

The fact that you have willfully blinded your own eyes for so long a period makes your state a dire one. The passage makes it clear the Trinity is a fact. The Father is God, The Son is God, The Spirit is God.
Isaiah 48:18,Oh that you had paid attention to my commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false? [Amended]
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2013, 11:14:01 AM »
The fact that you have willfully blinded your own eyes for so long a period makes your state a dire one. The passage makes it clear the Trinity is a fact. The Father is God, The Son is God, The Spirit is God.



It is crystal clear whose eyes are blinded by a man made doctrine neither Jesus, His disciples nor the Bible ever taught!  It's time for you to open them and to study the Scriptures that refute the Trinity!  Capiche!

The following reasons are why the Trinity is false and cannot be proven by the Scriptures!

1. God is Spirit: Jn.1:18; Rom.1:20; 2 Cor.3:17-18; Col.1:15; 1 Tim.1:17; 1 Tim.6:16 Heb.11.27 and 1 Jn.4:12.

2. God is Holy: Lev.11:44-45; Lev.19:2; Isa.43:3; Jos.24:19; 1 Sam.2:2; Job 6:10; Ps.99:3 and 1 Pet.1:15-16.

3. According to the above, there is no option to the Scriptural fact, God is the Holy Spirit and Father of Jesus, according to Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35.


Quasar
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 11:17:24 AM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

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Re: Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false? [Amended]
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2013, 01:31:35 PM »
The Trinity.
•And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17)

Notice Jesus is on earth, the Spirit descends on Him and the Father speaks from heaven. The Trinity!
Isaiah 48:18,Oh that you had paid attention to my commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false? [Amended]
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2013, 12:36:21 PM »
The Trinity.
•And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17)

Notice Jesus is on earth, the Spirit descends on Him and the Father speaks from heaven. The Trinity!



Read the Scriptures in my previous post that completely refute the man made doctrine of the Trinity that neither Jesus, His disciples or the Bible teach!  They describe God to be the Holy Spirit AND Father of Jesus, which busts the Trinity, Mt.28:19 and 1 Jn.5:17 in the very beginning!


Review the following and learn the facts:

http://www.ucg.ca/booklets/is-god-a-trinity/trinity-biblical

http://www.trumpetcallbooks.com/trinity_truth.html


The historical development of the doctrine of the Trinity:

http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/doctrine/the%20origin%20of%20the%20trinity.htm


Quasar
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 12:54:24 PM by Quasar »
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

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Re: Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false? [Amended]
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2013, 01:25:57 PM »
The Trinity.
•And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17)

Notice Jesus is on earth, the Spirit descends on Him and the Father speaks from heaven. The Trinity!
Isaiah 48:18,Oh that you had paid attention to my commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

Offline Quasar

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Re: Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false? [Amended]
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2013, 01:39:55 AM »
The Trinity.
•And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17)

Notice Jesus is on earth, the Spirit descends on Him and the Father speaks from heaven. The Trinity!



Repeating your posts that have once been refuted is meaningless and you remain refuted.  Anyone who worships a man made doctrine that Jesus nor His disciples or the Bible ever taught is in serious trouble, which I pity and will pray for you!

You remain refuted!


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

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Re: Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false? [Amended]
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2013, 07:41:15 AM »


Repeating your posts that have once been refuted is meaningless and you remain refuted.  Anyone who worships a man made doctrine that Jesus nor His disciples or the Bible ever taught is in serious trouble, which I pity and will pray for you!

You remain refuted!


Quasar
Do you worship Jesus?
Isaiah 48:18,Oh that you had paid attention to my commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

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Re: Why is the doctrine of the Trinity false? [Amended]
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2013, 02:27:11 PM »
Do you worship Jesus?


I told you once before not to insult me in any of your posts again, sonny!  Pay attention to the Biblical issues I provided you with, that you continue to show your bigotted epitome of Scriptural ignorance over!  Either support your false claims the OP is false, that bust the Trinity, or you and the Trinity are soundly refuted!


Quasar
"I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except by me."  Jn.14:6.

 

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