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Author Topic: Predestined for Glorification  (Read 1114 times)

newnature

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Predestined for Glorification
« on: December 30, 2013, 05:08:26 PM »
We cannot earn salvation, and we can never lose salvation, because salvation is based not upon what we do, or promise to do, but upon what Christ has already done for us! What an astounding truth to ponder and really come to understand; a gift declaration of righteousness to those who could never gain that declaration through performance. Does that mean that once we are saved, we can just go out and do anything we want to do; live anyway we want to live and still be saved? Self-sanctification is sitting at the core in a negative way in the mindset of the person who is posing that question. Paul proves that question to be just the opposite.

Grace is a much greater motivator. It is the love of God that constrains us, not fear that God is going to strike us dead, or allow us to be a part of the second death if we perform what we should not be performing, or do not measure up through our performance. Are people set apart as holy in God’s sight because of their lack of sin, or are people set apart as holy in God’s sight because he has joined them to his son? God has a purpose for those who believe, by placing the believer into his son. God did not predestinate us to believe, he predestinated us to be conformed to the image of his son, because he knew who would believe.

Should we just go out and sin all the more now that we know that God’s grace is given to us as a gift simply when we believe his son died for our sins, and put those sins off the table of God’s justice. We must understand that God has predetermined to glorify us. In fact, God has predestined us to that glorification. To predestinate simply means to decide and decree in advance the destiny of something. The natural man has his mind tuned in only to the channel of his own human perspective; satisfying the lust of his flesh; the lust of his eyes; and the pride of life. If something is not logical to the natural man’s way of thinking, he refuses to believe it, whether God said it or not, he wants to remain in his comfort zone. God is not giving out his righteousness as a reward to those who are sorry for the past, and who promise to do their best in the future. At the point of our belief in what Christ accomplished where our sins are concerned, we are as closely associated with Christ as anyone could be, we are joined to him. What an ingenious salvation plan, to take someone else that is righteous and join us to that person, therefore what is Christ’s is ours! It is a gift, a declaration of rightness with God, and this comes totally apart from that unrighteous person’s production.

God’s Reconciliation of Man, read more about it at http://godsreconciliation.blogspot.com/

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Re: Predestined for Glorification
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2014, 09:15:39 AM »
I agree with what was written!

I was disappointed to hear Sid Roth describe it is a heresy called "hyper-grace," if I understand him correctly.
"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

newnature

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Re: Predestined for Glorification
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2014, 05:00:47 PM »
I see why this Hyper-grace would disappoint you? As believers, we do not possess the life that Jesus got when God raised him from among the dead as an inherent quality any more than we possess God’s righteousness as a property in our own nature. Just as in the midst of our sinfulness, we are righteous, so in the midst of our self-evident mortality, we are going to get the life God gave to Jesus. In John 5:26, Jesus was “to have” that life that God has within himself, Jesus never had that kind of life before, he was to have it. In 1 John 1:1-5, Jesus indeed got that life, his disciples testify he got that life he was telling them he was going to get. As a result of our being sealed in Christ, we are what we are not. In ourselves, we are not righteous and not immortal, but in Christ, we are both righteous and immortal. The fact that the living saints will meet with Christ at the same time as the sleeping saints indicates that the latter have not yet been united with Christ in heaven. Paul was not concerned about a ‘state’ which exists between death and resurrection, but for a relationship that exists between the believer and Christ through death. This relationship of being with Christ is not interrupted by death, because the believer who sleeps in Christ has no awareness of the passing of time. Paul did not think the question of the status of the person between death and resurrection was a question that needed to be considered. The reason is that for Paul, those who die in Christ, their relationship with Christ is one of immediacy, because they have no awareness of the passing of time between their death and resurrection. Paul explains that both the sleeping and living believers will be united with Christ, not at death, but at his coming for his body of believers in this age of Grace. Paul never alluded to the conscious survival of the soul and its reattachment to the body at the resurrection, that is a notion totally foreign to Paul and to Scripture as a whole.

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Re: Predestined for Glorification
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2014, 06:42:54 PM »
Paul never alluded to the conscious survival of the soul and its reattachment to the body at the resurrection, that is a notion totally foreign to Paul and to Scripture as a whole.
Enoch and Elijah were both taken, body and soul, into heaven. That is pointed out just to demonstrate that consciousness in heaven (prior to the Second Coming of Christ) is not a totally foreign notion to scripture. Also, after the resurrection of Jesus, there was a great earthquake and many that were dead rose from the graves and were seen walking in the streets. Again, that is prior to the Second Coming of Christ.

In ourselves, we are not righteous and not immortal, but in Christ, we are both righteous and immortal. The fact that the living saints will meet with Christ at the same time as the sleeping saints indicates that the latter have not yet been united with Christ in heaven. Paul was not concerned about a ‘state’ which exists between death and resurrection, but for a relationship that exists between the believer and Christ through death. This relationship of being with Christ is not interrupted by death, because the believer who sleeps in Christ has no awareness of the passing of time. Paul did not think the question of the status of the person between death and resurrection was a question that needed to be considered. The reason is that for Paul, those who die in Christ, their relationship with Christ is one of immediacy, because they have no awareness of the passing of time between their death and resurrection. Paul explains that both the sleeping and living believers will be united with Christ, not at death, but at his coming for his body of believers in this age of Grace.
God alone is physically immortal, along with those who are physically resurrected from the dead at the Second Coming of Christ (and others at different periods of time in history). Those who go to the Great White Throne Judgement are not granted heavenly immortality when they are thrown into the Lake of Fire (that's called eternal death), but they will be alive for all eternity.

Some people inadvertently confuse physical mortality with spiritual eternity. The two are different. A smaller group of people also inadvertently believe that the physical brain is the soul, but it is not, though the soul is intertwined with the physical body until it separates at death. The physical body and the physical brain decompose at death, but the soul is eternal -- either in hell without God or in heaven with Jesus and the saints.

In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, Father Abraham said that even if one were to rise from the dead to tell others that there is an afterlife, people would not believe it.

Lastly, the Lord Jesus Christ presented the concept of life after the death of the physical body in the story of Lazarus and the rich man. If the concept were Satanic in origin, then Jesus would not have presented it.

"So then, stand firm and hold to the traditions :o which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

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Re: Predestined for Glorification
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2014, 10:18:19 AM »
Quote from: me again
Some people inadvertently confuse physical mortality with spiritual eternity. The two are different. A smaller group of people also inadvertently believe that the physical brain is the soul, but it is not, though the soul is intertwined with the physical body until it separates at death. The physical body and the physical brain decompose at death, but the soul is eternal -- either in hell without God or in heaven with Jesus and the saints.

In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, Father Abraham said that even if one were to rise from the dead to tell others that there is an afterlife, people would not believe it.

Lastly, the Lord Jesus Christ presented the concept of life after the death of the physical body in the story of Lazarus and the rich man. If the concept were Satanic in origin, then Jesus would not have presented it.


Well said!  However, God is Spirit, according to Jn.4:24; 2 Cor.3:17-18.  See also Rom.3:20; Jn.1:18 and 1 Jn.4:12.  He also has a soul, according to Isa.1:14, as well as a spiritual body, according to 1 Cor.15:44.


Quote from: newnature
This relationship of being with Christ is not interrupted by death, because the believer who sleeps in Christ has no awareness of the passing of time. Paul did not think the question of the status of the person between death and resurrection was a question that needed to be considered. The reason is that for Paul, those who die in Christ, their relationship with Christ is one of immediacy, because they have no awareness of the passing of time between their death and resurrection. Paul explains that both the sleeping and living believers will be united with Christ, not at death, but at his coming for his body of believers in this age of Grace. Paul never alluded to the conscious survival of the soul and its reattachment to the body at the resurrection, that is a notion totally foreign to Paul and to Scripture as a whole.


The term "sleep" in 1 Thess.4:14-15, means all those who had DIED in Christ, whose spirit/souls are eternally alive, once created [born], as recorded in Ecc.12:7; Jn.11:26; Lk.16:19-24; 2 Cor.5:6-8, Phil.1:21-23; 1 Cor.15:51; 1 Thess.4:17; Rev.3:10; Rev.6:9-11 and 7:9-17, in addition to both Enoch and Elijah.  All of them still very much alive and active..


Quasar   
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 10:39:08 AM by Quasar »
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